Jesus - a person or a mode?

[Brian2]

Maybe you need to study the matter a little deeper.

"I and the Father are one" is more than Jesus saying that He and the Father agree with each other.
The Jews who picked up stones to kill Jesus knew that.
They knew that the "one" was in the neuter and so Jesus was saying "I and the Father are one thing".

 

[PureX]

The story is that God revealed certain things to those men and that God did certain things through them and to and for the Jews and this led to Jesus and His death and resurrection and all that is said to mean in the scriptures.
So I wouldn't say the Bible is not important as texts that we believe or reject.

There is no logical reason to believe that God reveals himself to some men and hides himself from others.

 

[Eli G]

"I and the Father are one" is more than Jesus saying that He and the Father agree with each other.
The Jews who picked up stones to kill Jesus knew that.
They knew that the "one" was in the neuter and so Jesus was saying "I and the Father are one thing".

Mmmh ... "one thing" is not the way I would translate Jesus' words. The thing is he used the same expression when he referred to the union between himself and his disciples, and between all of them and Jehovah.

John 17:11 “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (...) 20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24 Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. 26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

Was Jesus saying in John 17 that he and his disciples, also with the ones who put faith in Jesus through their word (v.20), are "one thing"? Would you translate "to be one" in John 17 as "to be one thing" as you intend to interpret in John 10:30?

Note that εις (one) here in John 17 is as neuter as the one in John 10:30. Understanding what he meant on John 17 with the same wording helps us understand what he meant when he referred to be one with his Father.

 

[Brian2]

Mmmh ... "one thing" is not the way I would translate Jesus' words. The thing is he used the same expression when he referred to the union between himself and his disciples, and between all of them and Jehovah.

John 17:11 “I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (...) 20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24 Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. 26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

Was Jesus saying in John 17 that he and his disciples, also with the ones who put faith in Jesus through their word (v.20), are "one thing"? Would you translate "to be one" in John 17 as "to be one thing" as you intend to interpret in John 10:30?

Note that εις (one) here in John 17 is as neuter as the one in John 10:30. Understanding what he meant on John 17 with the same wording helps us understand what he meant when he referred to be one with his Father.

Yes Christians are united as one thing because of the Spirit in each of us. We have one Spirit, the Spirit of Christ and this unites us spiritually to Jesus and to each other. (Eph 4:1-14)(1Cor 6:17) into the body of Christ, which grows together to the fullness of Christ. So we grow to become like Jesus was as a man.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"I and the Father are one" is more than Jesus saying that He and the Father agree with each other. The Jews who picked up stones to kill Jesus knew that.
They knew that the "one" was in the neuter and so Jesus was saying "I and the Father are one thing".

Jesus truthfully answered the Jews at John 10:36 when he said he was the Son of God.
That would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to say he was God.
Since Jesus prayed that his followers be one as he and his Father are one at John 17:11 B; John 17:21-23 then according to the above post Jesus was saying I and the Father and all of his followers are one thing .
However, they could be one not only in agreement, unity, but harmony of purpose, goal, belief, objective, etc.

 

[Brian2]

Jesus truthfully answered the Jews at John 10:36 when he said he was the Son of God.
That would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to say he was God.
Since Jesus prayed that his followers be one as he and his Father are one at John 17:11 B; John 17:21-23 then according to the above post Jesus was saying I and the Father and all of his followers are one thing .
However, they could be one not only in agreement, unity, but harmony of purpose, goal, belief, objective, etc.

I have not found a JW who can understand what Jesus meant when He prayed for the unity of His followers.
His followers are one thing in Christ, we are joined spiritually to Jesus and are the body of Christ.
Jesus is joined spiritually to His Father and is one God with His Father.
Jesus followers are not joined to the Father as Jesus is. We are not one with the Father. We are not God.
We are children of God and have the Spirit of adoption and remain created beings and united to Christ and to each other.