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Jesus... a Man Or a GOD?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rozs, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    it is one of the titles he has.using the arab word for 'god' in an english discussion is awkward at best.
    i don't know what you mean by this.btw, i don't believe in the trinity so i don't know why you're approaching me as if i did.you clearly have a pre-concieved disposition towards the idea that 'god/allah' has a name besides his titles, so there's no actual need to continue beyond the recognition of your position.

    quoting the quran to answer me is like me quoting the NT to answer you, rather pointless right?btw, the NT does not mention 'god''s name beyond the title god(theos).this does not dismiss the fact that the one(one of the one's) referred to be the title has an actual name as is implicated in the OT.

    an arrab christian(believing in the trinity) would refer to yeshua(jesus) as allah would he not?


    see if you can follow me through this simple study of your logic.



    We see that the 'Bible' teaches that 'God'’s name is [yhwh]. This has important theological implications:
    Deuteronomy 13:1-3

    [1] "When there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he shall give you a sign or a wonder, 2and the sign or the wonder shall come true, of which he has spoken to you, say- ing, ‘Let us go after other mighty ones – which you have not known – and serve them,’ 3do not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for [​IMG](yhwh) your Elohim is trying you to know whether you love [​IMG](yhwh)your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.

    Deuteronomy 18:20
    ‘But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My Name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other mighty ones, even that prophet shall die’


    Any prophet who speaks in a name other than that of YHWH is a false prophet, no matter how successful his or her predictions may be. If the name of God in the Quran is Allah, then the god of the Quran is not the same as the God of Moses and Jesus.




    (This is why Osama Abdallah and others are trying to prove that God’s name has always been Allah.) The Quran makes a similar declaration:
    Surah 4.82

    Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much incongruity.


    What is the incongruity in the Quran? Simply put, it claims to be a confirmation of the previous scriptures (the Torah, the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Gospel):



    Surah 2.41

    And believe in that which I reveal, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture), and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me.

    Surah 2.89
    And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.


    However, because the name of God in the Bible is YHWH and the name of God in the Quran is Allah, there is an incongruity in the Quran: it claims to be a confirmation of the previous scriptures while at the same time contradicting them on the subject of the name of God. One can see, therefore, that it is impossible for the God of the Bible and the god of the Quran to be the same. YHWH is God’s name in the Bible, but not in the Quran.


    Since the Quran claims to be a confirmation of the Bible while contradicting the Bible on a point as simple as the name of God, we must conclude that the two do not have the same origin.If the Quran is correct in its claim that the name of God is Allah, then this means that the Bible contains error, and since the Quran elsewhere affirms the trustworthiness of the Bible, the Quran itself must not have divine origins (or it would not affirm the trustworthiness of a false book). If the Quran is simply wrong about God’s name, then it should be rejected as having divine origins. Thus, while it may be possible (in the theoretical realm) that neither book is true, it is impossible for the Quran to be right about the trustworthiness of the Bible and its own trustworthiness at the same time.


    love
     
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  2. Peace

    Peace Quran & Sunnah

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  3. SpiritualSon

    SpiritualSon Member

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    Jehovah God was by Himself when He created all things, and became Man under the name Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is Jehovah God as a Man. He made His Manhood Divine. "Let us make man" means God works through His angels.

    Harry
     
  4. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Typical male.
     
  5. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Bereshis bara Elohim ET/In the beginning God Created Aleph Tav, in the NT He is called Alpha & Omega, the first born of all creation, The word of God. First created thing, Yeshua.
     
  6. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    Then Allah does not know grammar if he said "We" when he is alone. Our God the Father, Creator of the heavens and earth is a intelligent God. He knows everything most specially grammar. Jesus Christ is there when he created the earth

    John 1:1-3
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The same was in the beginning with God.

    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    PEACE be with you:)
     
  7. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    Then Allah does not know grammar if he said "We" when he is alone. Our God the Father, Creator of the heavens and earth is a intelligent God. He knows everything most specially grammar. Jesus Christ is there when he created the earth

    John 1:1-3
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The same was in the beginning with God.

    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    PEACE be with you:)
     
  8. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    Gen 1:26
    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    God is speaking to someone who is also a creator. Angels are not creators. They were creations. God is talking to another creator who is in the same image and likeness as His. Who could it be? It is Jesus.

    Want me to prove it?
     
  9. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    Funny--he doesn't mention Jesus. How do you know it was Jesus who was there with him? It could have been Satan, or god's cousin who pulled off another creation in the next galaxy. There's no need to be jumping to conclusions about Jesus.
     
  10. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    If I can prove to you that Jesus was there. Would you accept that you are wrong?
    But first, Do you believe in the Bible?
    If not, there is no point for discussion
     
  11. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    John 1

    "In the beginning the Word was with God."

    The Word is Jesus, Jesus was with God in the beginning.
     
  12. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    That's right Mister Emu.:woohoo:
     
  13. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know that the Word is Jesus? I've honestly not seen a source for that information ever.
     
  14. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    If I can prove o you and to all who can read this that it was Jesus. Would you accept that you are wrong? And do you believe in the Bible?
    Answer my question. I'm waiting...
     
  15. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    I'm waiting Ceridwen018. if I can read in the Bible that it was Jesus. Would you accept that you are wrong? Yes or No?
     
  16. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    Col1:16-for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him


    not to say he was the only 'angel' there, but scripturally speaking, he was there.
     
  17. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    That's right!!:jiggy:
     
  18. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    'jesus' was a man, and eloah as well.
     
  19. Rozs

    Rozs Member

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    What happened? Why are you not answering? The question is simple.
    You said that Jesus was not there when God created the heavens and the earth. If I can read in the Bible that Jesus was there. Would you accept that you are wrong?
    YES or NO?
     
  20. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Gospel of John

    1

    14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.) full of grace and truth.15 John bare witness of him, and cried saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preffered before me: for he was before me.

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto , and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me, for he was before me.

    In conclusion, the Word was made flesh, and John bare witness to him, and who was it that John witnessed for? Jesus.
     
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