Jesus a Child Killer?

[Etritonakin]

"Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished." ​

..........Isaiah 13:9, 13:15​

Oh yes very loving and peaceful... ... not!​

He will allow men to do the above -he does not make them. He will allow us to do as we see fit because we reject him -and then will stop it just before we destroy all life. The following is what the angelic army he brings with him will do... to remove evil from earth and bring peace. Yes -technically, it is "evil" also -but will work good -and all killed will be resurrected. We can't do that -and it's usually not on our minds when we kill each other.

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him............................?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[MW0082]

He will allow men to do the above -he does not make them. He will allow us to do as we see fit because we reject him -and then will stop it just before we destroy all life. The following is what the angelic army he brings with him will do... to remove evil from earth and bring peace. Yes -technically, it is "evil" also -but will work good -and all killed will be resurrected. We can't do that -and it's usually not on our minds when we kill each other.

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him............................?

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

What are you talking about?

It says The Day The Lordeth Come, and filled with anger and wraith.

A vengful evil being if you ask me, no matter how you twist it...

 

[Etritonakin]

I'm not saying you can't think as you do -and am not trying to make you... I'm not into pointless endeavors. We think as we think until we don't -unless we still do (can't argue with that logic!). I am just providing information.

I'm not even saying you're wrong... but giving another perspective with which you are not bound or even expected to agree.

He's sort of like Clint Eastwood in "Gran Torino"... When he locked that kid in the basement and sorted things out so the kid wouldn't have blood on his hands... and on his mind the rest of his life...
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


He is full of anger and wrath -and will act on it -killing many...

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

...then resurrect all -bless the innocent -reward those who do well -and destroy those who would ruin it for everyone -among other things.

:foryou:

 

[outhouse]

I disagree. There have been many murderous kings in reality who have been revered by the community or nation. There have been many political leaders in general who hold that status. You can justify anything if you feel there is a worthy enough cause or with enough propaganda.

I understand your point whole hearted.

my point was, when god murders everyone with the flood

in my opinion, he became the king of murder, no other has done such a evil deed.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I understand your point whole hearted.

my point was, when god murders everyone with the flood

in my opinion, he became the king of murder, no other has done such a evil deed.

When did God do that?

 

[Dezzie]

When did God do that?

In the OT of course

 

[angellous_evangellous]

In the OT of course

haha - it being in a story and it actually happening are two very different things.

That is, we can't call God a murderer unless God actually murdered someone.

The charge that God did it with a worldwide flood is perhaps the easiest to refute, unless outhouse can come up with something even more fantastic.

 

[outhouse]

When did God do that?

I agree with you that he didnt. [if thats your stance]

many people read the bible literaly and believe whole hearted that noah did flood the earth.

I stand corrected, i should have said [if you believe that story] or [the bible states he is the biggest murderer of all times]

in my opinion if that is fiction, gods word is also fiction and has errors and like domino's in a row the whole bible falls into the fiction catagory

 

[Dezzie]

haha - it being in a story and it actually happening are two very different things.

That is, we can't call God a murderer unless God actually murdered someone.

The charge that God did it with a worldwide flood is perhaps the easiest to refute, unless outhouse can come up with something even more fantastic.

true... Even if we had proof of a flood, who's to say it was God's doing? Maybe it was merely Science... something collided with the Earth, causing tsunamis and a major flood, killing thousands. It may not have been God's fault... Although... if the flood really happened, I guess he could have stopped it if He had the power.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

true... Even if we had proof of a flood, who's to say it was God's doing? Maybe it was merely Science... something collided with the Earth, causing tsunamis and a major flood, killing thousands. It may not have been God's fault... Although... if the flood really happened, I guess he could have stopped it if He had the power.

I dunno.

A worldwide flood as described in Genesis is scientifically impossible - so much so that if it did happen, it definately would fall under a "divine miracle" or the "wrath of God." It's inconceivable. It's like a triangle with four sides or a square with a corner.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I agree with you that he didnt. [if thats your stance]

many people read the bible literaly and believe whole hearted that noah did flood the earth.

I stand corrected, i should have said [if you believe that story] or [the bible states he is the biggest murderer of all times]

in my opinion if that is fiction, gods word is also fiction and has errors and like domino's in a row the whole bible falls into the fiction catagory

That's a rather bianary way of looking at the issue.

Do you really think that God is incapable of speaking through myths?

 

[newhope101]

My take on the passage is that it is illustrating the falling away of the churches/various religions and congregations falling away from the truth. The Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John support the prophecy that "many will come on the basis of my name but they will teach the word of man as scripture". Rev2 illustrates the religions doing alot of good stuff BUT doing their own thing as well. These congregations no longer exist and their children, ie ongoing religions and religious sects and faiths of all descriptions, will also be destroyed. Indeed the Holy land has seen nothing but war and destruction since with many children dying as a result.

Rev Ch2 is talking to the various religious congregations, particularly the religious leaders. In those days the Jewish leaders were the pharisees and sagucees. They were not spared critisicim. They were called sons of vipers and their father the devil. However Jesus felt sorry for the people who he called lost sheep without a good shepherd. The equivalent nowadays eg pope, priests, ministers, including the leaders of non biblical faiths will be held accountable. These religious leaders stop many that would otherwise go straight to heaven by their false teachings and condemn those seeking the truth to 'sheol', death awaiting resurrection.

I feel the chapter warns those that identify themselves as religious leaders that they are very responsible for their flock. It is prophesied, they will all fail to uphold the truth where it does not suit them, just like the congegations in Rev2. The churches will be destroyed if they do not teach ALL the truth. Token gesturism is not acceptable to God. These leaders are not necessarily condemned personally as many are just following what they have been taught. It is the congregation/church that will be destroyed along with any offshoots or younger religions.

The congegations of the world will not be found worthy in the last days of the great tribulation and the churches will fall. This prophecy is already being fulfilled. This is witnessed by the lack of respect people have for mainstream religions these days and by the difficulty, particularly Catholicism, has in maintianing numbers of priests and nuns, churches going broke while the pope lives in 'shameless luxury'. The bible is specific in prophecying a congregation that will arise that will 'forbid marriage' and from these stay away.

Rev2 is illustrating that just because a religious leader says they represent God on earth does not mean they will be spared destruction in the last days. These are the last days and the churches are failing. Their teachings are not supported by God and they have been abandond. However, a new people will rise up out of all the congegations of the world when God shows himself to the nations. This congegation will be a cross section of faiths that will then see/know what is going on, what is expected and what the truth is. There will be no need for faith and false religion will be destroyed.

False religion is identified in the bible as Babylon the Great and Jezabelle...all harlots that politically hop into bed with the nations and are unfaithful to the scriptures, twisting them to suit their own agendas. eg Hellfire is rubbish, priests unable to marry, worshipping idols like crosses and figures of stone and praying to saints show how Catholicism has strayed. Other religions will be similarly judged.

Rev2 is a warning that a faith or congregation needs to do more than just profess to serve God or they (the congregation) will be destroyed.

That's my thoughts on it.

 

[outhouse]

That's a rather bianary way of looking at the issue.

Do you really think that God is incapable of speaking through myths?

which god? every one thinks there god is the one.

I would say no I dont, ancient mans mans heads were filled with imagination becuase they didnt know any better.

every, every ancient and modern culture has grown up with religion or spirits.

who am i to say or know what is real or fiction?

All I do know is when someone claims voices in there head is talking to them :run:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

which god?

Which one were we talking about?

 

[outhouse]

Which one were we talking about?

point taken, had to grab a shovel full while i could

 

[Blackdog22]

That's a rather bianary way of looking at the issue.

Do you really think that God is incapable of speaking through myths?

I think it is possible that God would speak through myths, but I also think it is confusing. The thousands of branches of Christianity agree with me. Also since God isn't the God of confusion I have to wonder if maybe this isn't a story written by God, and I also have to wonder whether that means the whole Bible isn't written by God(through man).

I would also have to wonder why God would feel the need to write out the specifications of the Ark on a whole 2 pages in the Bible. Was this to lend credibility to the story? Is there a lesson to be learned from measurements? It appears whoever wrote the story did intend for it to be taken literally, otherwise those measurements are real confusing, which God isn't.... :faint:

 

[idea]

I think it is possible that God would speak through myths, but I also think it is confusing. ...

(Bible Dictionary | P Parables:Entry)
Parables. (1) Most teachers, especially Oriental teachers, have used some form of parable in their instruction, but none so exclusively as Jesus at one period of his ministry. During part of the Galilean ministry the record states that "without a parable spake he not unto them" (Mark 4:34). From our Lord's words (Matt. 13:13–15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10) we learn the reason for this method. It was to veil the meaning. The parable conveys to the hearer religious truth exactly in proportion to his faith and intelligence; to the dull and uninspired it is a mere story, "seeing they see not," while to the instructed and spiritual it reveals the mysteries or secrets of the kingdom of heaven. Thus it is that the parable exhibits the condition of all true knowledge. Only he who seeks finds.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

point taken, had to grab a shovel full while i could

hahaha

 

[Etritonakin]

I understand your point whole hearted.

my point was, when god murders everyone with the flood

in my opinion, he became the king of murder, no other has done such a evil deed.

Would he not have already been the king of murder by numbering our days after Eden -then later to only 120?

We all gotta die -and every last death is the ultimate responsibility of God.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" -God

We would die due to natural consequences of sin, anyway -so God sometimes expedites the process in our best interest!

The difference is that GOD CAN BRING THE DEAD BACK TO LIFE -WHICH IS WHY IT IS SAID THAT THEY ARE ONLY ASLEEP!

WE CAN NOT.

 

[Madhuri]

Would he not have already been the king of murder by numbering our days after Eden -then later to only 120?

We all gotta die -and every last death is the ultimate responsibility of God.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" -God

We would die due to natural consequences of sin, anyway -so God sometimes expedites the process in our best interest!

The difference is that GOD CAN BRING THE DEAD BACK TO LIFE -WHICH IS WHY IT IS SAID THAT THEY ARE ONLY ASLEEP!

WE CAN NOT.

That is a good point, although when you believe in the afterlife, death in this life seems less dramatic. For me, what seems far worse and incredibly evil, is being sent into hell for eternity. Better not to be born in the first place, thanks.