Jesus 100% man?

[CynthiaCypher]

Again there are no known natural cases of parthenogenesis in mammals to have occurred...so that's a stretch.

Maybe it's a miracle.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Maybe it's a miracle.

By the definition of the word Miracle:
"an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause."

Or

"such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God."

I would argue that if were a true miracle, it would make Jesus more than man.

 

[Oryonder]

Jesus being 100% man and 100% God is what we believe (not all Christians, but most). We do not believe He was a "demi-God" by any means. If you don't like our beliefs, you don't have to follow them.
When Jesus was here with His Apostles He was totally human and when with His Father He was God. That is our beliefs.

Clearly you do not understand what modern Christians believe. Modern Christians believe that Jesus "is" God/the Father. Jesus was always with God because he is God.

While this may be what modern Christians believe but it is certainly not what early Christians believed. Up until Constantine there was a raging debate within the Church as to the nature of Jesus divinity.

Most, if not all, of the early Church fathers believed that Jesus was subordinate to the Father .. not the same as the Father at all.

Constantine (a Pagan) ordered that Jesus was the same substance as God (homoousios)to stop the internal bickering within the Church. He did this for political reasons .. not religious.

 

[ChristineES]

I don’t follow them...however I thought this was a debate board??? Was I wrong??? If I’m not wrong, don’t comment if you’re not here for the discussion.

I used to be super sensitive, too (and I still am sometimes). I was debating, or at least I thought I was. You're putting emotion that I just did not have in my post. I wasn't attacking you or your subject. Do a lot of theists and Christians attack you or something. If they do, they shouldn't be.
Peace, neighbor.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Clearly you do not understand what modern Christians believe. Modern Christians believe that Jesus "is" God/the Father. Jesus was always with God because he is God.

While this may be what modern Christians believe but it is certainly not what early Christians believed. Up until Constantine there was a raging debate within the Church as to the nature of Jesus divinity.

Most, if not all, of the early Church fathers believed that Jesus was subordinate to the Father .. not the same as the Father at all.

Constantine (a Pagan) ordered that Jesus was the same substance as God (homoousios)to stop the internal bickering within the Church. He did this for political reasons .. not religious.

No, most modern Christian don't believe what you believe. Most tend to go by the Nicene Creed or what they know of it.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

By the definition of the word Miracle:
"an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause."

Or

"such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God."

I would argue that if were a true miracle, it would make Jesus more than man.

And your argument would be wrong.

 

[ChristineES]

Clearly you do not understand what modern Christians believe. Modern Christians believe that Jesus "is" God/the Father. Jesus was always with God because he is God.

While this may be what modern Christians believe but it is certainly not what early Christians believed. Up until Constantine there was a raging debate within the Church as to the nature of Jesus divinity.

Most, if not all, of the early Church fathers believed that Jesus was subordinate to the Father .. not the same as the Father at all.

Constantine (a Pagan) ordered that Jesus was the same substance as God (homoousios)to stop the internal bickering within the Church. He did this for political reasons .. not religious.

Correction- what I said is what most of the Christians I have met personally believe. I know all about Constantine- my mom is convinced he edited scripture to fit his agenda (Don't know if there is any evidence of that, I never heard anyone else say that, my mom got a degree in Anthropology).
And you're right, Jesus wasn't the same as the Father while He was walking around- if He was He would not have called Him Father.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Clearly you do not understand what modern Christians believe. Modern Christians believe that Jesus "is" God/the Father. Jesus was always with God because he is God.

I grew up Lutheran and this is exactly what I was taught.

No, most modern Christian don't believe what you believe. Most tend to go by the Nicene Creed or what they know of it.

You dont believe Jesus and God are one in the same?

 

[BobbyisStrange]

And your argument would be wrong.

explain please.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

I used to be super sensitive, too (and I still am sometimes). I was debating, or at least I thought I was. You're putting emotion that I just did not have in my post. I wasn't attacking you or your subject. Do a lot of theists and Christians attack you or something. If they do, they shouldn't be.
Peace, neighbor.

It is hard to detect tone through words...I thought "If you don't like our beliefs, you don't have to follow them." was a comment based on emotion...if not, I apologize

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I grew up Lutheran and this is exactly what I was taught.



You dont believe Jesus and God are one in the same?

For guys who claim to be or have been this or that, you guys sure got the theology all wrong. According to Christian theology Jesus is not the first person of the Trinity but the second person.

 

[ChristineES]

It is hard to detect tone through words...I thought "If you don't like our beliefs, you don't have to follow them." was a comment based on emotion...if not, I apologize

When I make comments like that, I am mostly speaking generally- not to one person but to a general audience. I should have said I was speaking generally and not personally. I can be pretty vague at times- much to a lot of people's chagrin.

 

[ChristineES]

There are some Christians who don't believe Jesus is God at all- Jehovah's Witnesses and others. I think at the last count, there were about 10% of Christians that didn't believe in the trinity.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

For guys who claim to be or have been this or that, you guys sure got the theology all wrong. According to Christian theology Jesus is not the first person of the Trinity but the second person.

Father, Son and Holy Ghost...3 in one...not to be worshiped as 3 gods...As taught in the Athanasian creed Athanasian Creed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[outhouse]

I know a lot of Christians accept that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God...But doesn’t the very fact that in the story, Jesus being born of a virgin (not to mention his many miracles), negate the idea that he was 100% man? I mean, why don’t Christians just call him a demigod since he fits all the criteria? I know other religious sects consider him to be just that...it is obvious that the Bible's portrayal of Jesus, though made flesh and blood, is much more than a man. So by 100% man are we just saying made of flesh and blood?

mythology was built around a mortal man

the real historical jesus is not biblical jesus


biblical jesus had no mortal father, performed miracles, walked omn water ect ect ect

Of course all written about by people who never knew him, never witnessed him, never heard a word pass his lips,,,,,,, and didnt even live in the same geographic location,,, and didnt belong to the same culture NOR religion.


All credible scholars state the virin birth is a later addition

AND that is a debate in its own right as the word translates to virgin or maiden that also equates to young girl. Its also possible mary if there was a Mary, was raped by a roman guard. Im guessing this isnt the case as jesus more then likely had many brothers and sisters.

fact is we will never know about his lineage other then he was a poor poverty stricken jew who lived a life below that of a common peasant from Galilee, and he possibly had parents by the name of Mary and Joseph and was more then likely not the only child.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

mythology was built around a mortal man

the real historical jesus is not biblical jesus


biblical jesus had no mortal father, performed miracles, walked omn water ect ect ect

Of course all written about by people who never knew him, never witnessed him, never heard a word pass his lips,,,,,,, and didnt even live in the same geographic location,,, and didnt belong to the same culture NOR religion.


All credible scholars state the virin birth is a later addition

AND that is a debate in its own right as the word translates to virgin or maiden that also equates to young girl. Its also possible mary if there was a Mary, was raped by a roman guard. Im guessing this isnt the case as jesus more then likely had many brothers and sisters.

fact is we will never know about his lineage other then he was a poor poverty stricken jew who lived a life below that of a common peasant from Galilee, and he possibly had parents by the name of Mary and Joseph and was more then likely not the only child.

I am in agreement here. And biblically he was most certainly not the only child...we know James was his brother.

 

[Oryonder]

No, most modern Christian don't believe what you believe. Most tend to go by the Nicene Creed or what they know of it.

The Nicene creed states that Jesus is God .. aka The Father.

The main passage of import, and of contention during the council if Nicea, is "one substance with the Father". (Homoousious)

This was the passage inserted by Constantine to settle the various debates within the Church.

To the people at that time there were only two kinds of matter/substances .. that which God was made of, and that which everything else was made of .. Plants, humans, Angels, and so forth.

Claiming that Jesus was one substance with the Father meant that Jesus was "The Father".

The early Church did not believe that Jesus was the Father. In fact, when Tertullian introduced the idea around 200 AD the Church declared it heresy.

Only after Constantine was the idea that Jesus was God accepted by the mainstream.

 

[sojourner]

This is in dispute as there seems to be valid reason to believe the Septuagint had it right with "Virgin" and that the Masoretic accidentally or deliberately changed this centuries later.

Try to find anywhere in the anti-Septuagint article here that is based on observable facts. Where's the reason to believe the "2nd century B.C. Hebrews were telling the Greeks it was wrong?"

THE SEPTUAGINT AND THE "VIRGIN-BIRTH" FRAUD

I say it would be silly to say "Behold I give you a sign: A young woman shall give birth!!" Wow. What a sign. A young woman having a birth. That doesn't happen every day! Truly something to behold as a sign.

At a cursory glance, the article appears to agree with me that the translation "young woman" is correct.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Since we have morphed the Convo into the trinity...the concept about the trinity was around a long time...however it wasn't taught in the bible. It was a later addition.

 

[sojourner]

I’ll give you that for now. Do you believe Jesus was born of God? You gave me a translation, but what is your view? Was he born of a virgin through the divine power of God or was his biological father Joseph?

You see, I don’t believe in miracles or God…So I tend to hold the position that the historical Jesus (if he existed) was only man…I would also argue that if someone has the ability to perform miracles, they somehow have the divine working through them and the fact that not every human has the ability to achieve this power would absolutely make them more than man, however that is my opinion.

Either way, I like the cut of your jib.

We're really talking about two different Jesuses here: The historic Jesus and the mythic Jesus. I use the mythic Jesus a lot in the formulation of metaphor. But I also fully understand the historic Jesus. Historically speaking, Jesus was probably born from human parents.