Jehvah's Witnesses

[Nada]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

Hi.First, lets start with hell.You should let your mom know that hell is not a literal place of fire where God has people tortured forever.This goes against His character.God is love.He would never burn His creations in a fire for all eternity.That is cruel and evil.Jehovah makes this clear in Jeremiah 7:31. "They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."

So we can see from this passage that this is something that Jehovah did not command nor did it enter His mind.

Also,the eternal lake of fire is a symbolic place that is a symbol of total destruction.It is not a literal place of fire.We know this because satan is said to be reserved for the eternal lake of fire.Fire is a natural element and cannot kill spirit creatures.Fire cannot kill a spirit.So we can easily see that this is a symbolic place.Fire represents destruction,renewal,cleansing.

Many think there is a literal hell of fire because of misconceptions due to mistranslations.There are many bibles that use the word hell very loosely.People need to realize the difference.When reading these bibles that mention the word hell,notice there is the hell that Jesus went to,and then there is hellfire.Hell where Jesus went to is the grave.Where it speaks of hellfire,like in Matthew 5:22,this means symbolic Gehenna,which is the eternal lake of fire.If you go to the original languages the holy scriptures were written in,which is Hebrew,Aramaic and Koine Greek,you will see the true words used and true meanings of these words.

The word for grave in Hebrew is Sheol.In Greek it is Hades.All these two words simply mean is a grave.Where the dead sleep until resurrection time.So if you go to Acts 2:31 where it speaks of Jesus being in hell,it actually says he was in Hades,which is Sheol,a grave.



If you go to the Greek interlinear bible and look up Acts 2:31 you will notice that it uses the word Hades.

This is saying that Jesus was in the grave.Now notice what it says in Matthew 5:22

Do you see how it says hell of fire.Jesus is speaking about total destruction.So in Acts 2:31 it is telling us that Jesus was in the grave until he was resurrected, and his body did not decay in the grave.In Matthew 5:22 Jesus is warning his brothers that they are in danger of everlasting destruction if they do not love their brothers.

In conclusion,hell is not a literal place of fire.God does not torture people for all eternity.This is all a misconception, based on wrong interpretations, due to mistranslations.

 

[Johnlove]

Then I am sorry my friend. Jesus himself declares you a false witness.


4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Matt 24:4-6

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matt 24: 26-27

Jesus is telling us not to listen to people who say they have physically met Jesus in private. Jesus says these men are deceivers or false prophets. Jesus clearly states that when he comes back to earth EVERYONE WILL KNOW IT. It won't be a private thing. Here is another verse which proves this:

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Rev 1: 7

So Jesus says not to listen to those who say they have met Jesus "in the wilderness" (like Paul did on the road to Damascus) or in "secret chambers" which means people like you who claim they have met Jesus in private.

Yes and Jesus himself told us that he would show himself to those who love him.


By the way my seeing Jesus in no way meant Jesus it was Jesus’ second coming.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Also John tells us that a sinner has never seen nor knows God. One who sins can’t have seen God. But those who love Jesus see him.


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


Also Jesus said he would call out his people, and they would recognize his voice, and follow him.



(John 10:1-5) “'In all truth I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a bandit. He who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the flock; the gatekeeper lets him in, the sheep hear his voice, one by one he calls his own sheep and leads them out. When he has brought out all those that are his, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognize the voice of strangers.'”


(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

 

[Nada]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

Now,as far as your mom thinking Jesus is God,this can easily be proven false with 2 scriptures.We know that God is the Almighty and has no creator.He has always existed.He is eternal.We know that Jesus had a beginning.He was created.He is the firstborn over all creation.God's first creation.So we know that Jesus is the Son and Jehovah is the Father.Jesus has a God but Jehovah does not.When speaking to Mary,he made this very clear.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So here Jesus is clearly stating that he, indeed, has a God, and it is the same God as the people.Jesus worships and takes orders from Jehovah God the Almighty.

Here in Matthew 26:39 Jesus shows how he was scared of what was to come and he also prays to God for help.Jesus is on his face praying in fear to God.We already know that praying is something we humans do to ask God for help and thanksgiving.Prayer is not something God does.God does not have to ask for help from anyone.He is the Almighty.But here we see Jesus praying,scared and asking for help,on his face.Jesus also says it is God's will,not his.


Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

So, from these two passages, we can see that Jesus has a God, and he prays to God.Just like us.

 

[Simplelogic]

Yes and Jesus himself told us that he would show himself to those who love him.


By the way my seeing Jesus in no way meant Jesus it was Jesus’ second coming.


(John 14:21) “Anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”


Also John tells us that a sinner has never seen nor knows God. One who sins can’t have seen God. But those who love Jesus see him.


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


Also Jesus said he would call out his people, and they would recognize his voice, and follow him.



(John 10:1-5) “'In all truth I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a bandit. He who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the flock; the gatekeeper lets him in, the sheep hear his voice, one by one he calls his own sheep and leads them out. When he has brought out all those that are his, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognize the voice of strangers.'”


(John 10:14-16) “I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep. And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.

These verses have nothing to do with claiming to "meet Jesus" personally like you just claimed. Your words still testify against you.

 

[Johnlove]

These verses have nothing to do with claiming to "meet Jesus" personally like you just claimed. Your words still testify against you.

If Jesus has not shown himself to people then it is only natural, if they believe themselves righteous, and have not seen Jesus, that they will not believe those who witness that they have.


Just ask yourself do you still committee sin? Scripture tells us those who sin are of the devil.


Do you believe Jesus is going to come to those who are of the devil?


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”

 

[Simplelogic]

If Jesus has not shown himself to people then it is only natural, if they believe themselves righteous, and have not seen Jesus, that they will not believe those who witness that they have.


Just ask yourself do you still committee sin? Scripture tells us those who sin are of the devil.


Do you believe Jesus is going to come to those who are of the devil?


(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1: 8

 

[Johnlove]

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1: 8

Read the scripture below, because you obviously don’t understand first John’s letter.


(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liarand his word has no place in our lives.”



You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.



If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?


Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?



(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.



Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

[Simplelogic]

Read the scripture below, because you obviously don’t understand first John’s letter.


(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liarand his word has no place in our lives.”



You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

Ummm….of course thats what it means. I never suggested otherwise. But you seem to be suggesting that you do not currently ever sin. I find that laughable.

 

[Simplelogic]

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

I don't regard Hebrews or any other Pauline inspired work as valid. Jesus never taught us that he was an "end all sacrifice" at all. Only Paul and whoever wrote Hebrews suggest such ludicrous idea. I hope you know that James continues to keep animal sacrifices in the book of Acts…10 years after Jesus' resurrection!!

You also might want to check out what Ezekiel says will happen in the FUTURE.

"Then it shall be the Prince'spart (royalty!) to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel, he shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel." Ezekiel 45:17.

What?? I thought we were already forgiven?? Uh oh!

Jesus/Yeshua taught Torah and repentance. This is a lifelong process.

 

[Johnlove]

Ummm….of course thats what it means. I never suggested otherwise. But you seem to be suggesting that you do not currently ever sin. I find that laughable.

(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

 

[Simplelogic]

(1 John 3:8) “Whoever lives sinfully belongs to the devil, since the devil has been a sinner from the beginning. This was the purpose of the appearing of the Son of God, to undo the work of the devil.”


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

You are tying your own noose with these verses. Yeshua kept ALL the commandments in the Torah. He kept Sabbath, feast days, Kosher laws, wore tzit tzit, practiced animal sacrifice. He was righteous according to the commandments. If we are told to live "just as Yeshua lived" then I assume you follow these commands as well right?

 

[JayJayDee]

There is NOTHING that says you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. Nothing. Not anywhere. Anyone claiming it does has a different Bible and God than I do.

Exactly.....
When Paul and Silas were arrested and an angel secured their release, the jailer was going to do away with himself because he feared the reprisal for allowing prisoners to escape. When the Christians told him that they were still there, "And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (NASB)

 

[Simplelogic]

Exactly.....
When Paul and Silas were arrested and an angel secured their release, the jailer was going to do away with himself because he feared the reprisal for allowing prisoners to escape. When the Christians told him that they were still there, "And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (NASB)

I would take it a step further. I would say even believing in Jesus does not justify or save a man. After all, don't the demons believe that Yeshua came and died and rose again?? Are they saved? Yeshua taught REPENTANCE as the vehicle for restoration with God. Just like the scriptures taught before him. A man must consider his way and turn from evil to following God to be right in God's sight. Thats just my take anyhow. Ezekiel puts it nicely:

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father with him, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son with him; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.21But if the wicked turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all My statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22None of his transgressions that he hath committed shall be remembered against him; for his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD; and not rather that he should return from his ways, and live?24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? None of his righteous deeds that he hath done shall be remembered; for his trespass that he trespassed, and for his sin that he hath sinned, for them shall he die. 25Yet ye say: The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel: Is it My way that is not equal? is it not your ways that are unequal? 26When the righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall die therefor; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29Yet saith the house of Israel: The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, is it My ways that are not equal? is it not your ways that are unequal? 30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Return ye, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so shall they not be a stumblingblock of iniquity unto you. 31Cast away from you all your transgressions, wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD; wherefore turn yourselves, and live. Ezekiel 18: 24-32

 

[David1967]

dont be too hard on your mother for her strong beliefs...she probably has good intentions and likely really believes what she's been told. If i believed that we were all going to hell (if hell was a real place) because of being a Jehovahs Witnesses, then i'd be angry about it too.


One line of reasoning that has helped many people realise that hell is not a real place is this... Ask your mother this: if one of her children made a bad mistake, would she then lock them in a burning furnace and keep them there forever as a punishment for whatever they did wrong?

Are a few mistakes worth an eternity of suffering and torment? Does the punishment fit the crime? And would a God of love, mercy and compassion really go to such lengths to make his children suffer?


Some people see the injustice in such a punishment when they consider doing it to their own children.

Just have to say, I am not a Jehovas witness, but I hope you guys are right about the Hell thing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Just have to say, I am not a Jehovah's witness, but I hope you guys are right about the Hell thing.

Can you, or anyone, think of someone righteous who at death went to hell ?______
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day righteous Jesus' died Jesus went to the Bible's hell.
Jesus based his teachings on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Such as: Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
That is why Jesus taught ' sleep in death ' at John 11:11-14
So, while in the Bible's hell, Jesus would have been in a sleep-like unconscious state until God resurrected the dead Jesus out of hell.
- Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 13:30,37; Colossians 2:12 B
Jesus now has the keys to unlock temporary biblical hell - Revelation 1:18.
' Temporary hell ' because notice at Revelation 20:13-14 that after everyone in biblical hell ( or grave ) is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected ) out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
* Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
* Satan ends up ( Not in hell ) but he ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for: destruction. Satan is wicked and the wicked end up being destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
We are given the choice ( Not of hell ) but either of ' repenting or perishing ' ( being destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' taking place on earth - Matthew 25:31-32 - when humble repentant sheep-like people can remain alive on earth, and continue living on earth, right into the start of Jesus' soon coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth, when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is NOTHING that says you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. Nothing. Not anywhere. Anyone claiming it does has a different Bible and God than I do.

However, there is SOMETHING that says: Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B
God was before the beginning - Psalms 90:2 - so, the pre-human Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

 

[David1967]

Hello,

I'm a newbie and an ex-Jehovah's Witness elder of many years.

Please realize that Jehovah's Witnesses de-emphasize Christ. They worshiped Jesus directly until the 1950's, but then began a switch to Jehovah that continues to this day. In addition, they don't believe anyone can have a relationship with God unless they recognize the 'faithful and discreet slave' first....which is currently the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you don't have a relationship with them... you cannot be in a relationship with God.

It is for this reason that many consider Jehovah's Witnesses a cult.

I hope this helps!

Darrin Hart

How did you get away from the JW's?