Jehovah's Witnesses Knocked on My Door

[Kemosloby]

Didn't say was, said will be. As in, they believe after judgement day those remaining on Earth will restore it to Eden like state. As for grand anti-chrostian conspiracies...well, you seem to find one in anything so...

One of the characteristics of a "Grand Conspiracy" is that you find it all over the place. Bible says Jesus is going to burn the entire earth so there is nothing left and then create the new Heaven and Earth in the original state. Who do the JW's believe created the first Heaven and Earth?

 

[DavidFirth]

Probably more complicated than that. But who am I to judge, I think the entire new testament exists because an angry, jealous, bloody war God was becoming too bad for PR, so they switched to a mellowed one.

I had forgotten for a minute there that you're not a Christian.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I had forgotten for a minute there that you're not a Christian.

I swear I'm not unfriendly towards Christians. I have strong opinions but I volunteer at multiple churches on a regular basis.

 

[Super Universe]

This is Revelation 21:5 from the New World Translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses -
And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful* and true.”

The same verse from the KJV - And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The same verse from the Holman Christian Standard Bible - Then the One seated on the throne said, "Look! I am making everything new." He also said, "Write, because these words are faithful and true."

I certainly can't vouch for any of these. I don't read Greek. I know I wouldn't use the KJV for a translation of Hebrew scripture, but maybe the translation of the Greek is better. I could cut and paste other translations and there would be differences in language choice. But to my non-Christian eye, these three - as well as the others I did not include - appear to be saying the same thing.

What am I missing?

So, to you, "I am comforted by my belief that God will soon bring complete justice to the earth and will right all wrongs. In the meantime, I cherish each day of life and do what I reasonably can to do preserve it."

Is the same as:

"Look! I am making all things new!"

They're not the same thing.

You have the right to interpret the bible as you wish but when you change it and then try to pass your interpretation off as the bible, that is lying and dishonest.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

One of the characteristics of a "Grand Conspiracy" is that you find it all over the place. Bible says Jesus is going to burn the entire earth so there is nothing left and then create the new Heaven and Earth in the original state. Who do the JW's believe created the first Heaven and Earth?

It also says a multiheaded dragon will be on Earth. Clearly they believe parts are allegorical.

 

[DavidFirth]

I swear I'm not unfriendly towards Christians. I have strong opinions but I volunteer at multiple churches on a regular basis.

That's cool.

It amazes me that a lot of non-Christians know the Bible much better than Christians do. It also saddens me.

 

[Super Universe]

Then everyone must go back to Hebrew, and Greek at the very least.

If the Hebrew and Greek were mistranslated. If they weren't then the King James is fine.

The JW's are not mistranslating, they are purposely changing it and passing it off as the bible.

 

[savagewind]

So, to you, "I am comforted by my belief that God will soon bring complete justice to the earth and will right all wrongs. In the meantime, I cherish each day of life and do what I reasonably can to do preserve it."

Is the same as:

"Look! I am making all things new!"

They're not the same thing.

You have the right to interpret the bible as you wish but when you change it and then try to pass your interpretation off as the bible, that is lying and dishonest.

When a scripture is added to the text of Jehovah's Witnesses it is for a cross-reference.
What it means in that instance is that the one quoted there has the idea because of the scripture.

 

[Kemosloby]

It also says a multiheaded dragon will be on Earth. Clearly they believe parts are allegorical.

Clearly they believe ALL parts are allegorical.

 

[savagewind]

Clearly they believe ALL parts are allegorical.

No, they don't. They believe Matthew 24:45 actually identifies the men of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
They also believe that the heavenly class is limited to 144,000.

 

[Milton Platt]

If the Hebrew and Greek were mistranslated. If they weren't then the King James is fine.

The JW's are not mistranslating, they are purposely changing it and passing it off as the bible.

Yes, but the stories that were arbitrarily compiled into modern Bibles were done so at the exclusion of many others that were held as sacred by early Christians. We also have different versions of the Bible containing additional stories. And before that, stories were passed around verbally. we do not have a single original text and do not have absolute confirmation about any of the authors of the written stories. How many people in the Middle East do you think were named John or Mark or Mathew in the first century?

 

[RabbiO]

So, to you, "I am comforted by my belief that God will soon bring complete justice to the earth and will right all wrongs. In the meantime, I cherish each day of life and do what I reasonably can to do preserve it."

Is the same as:

"Look! I am making all things new!"

They're not the same thing.

You have the right to interpret the bible as you wish but when you change it and then try to pass your interpretation off as the bible, that is lying and dishonest.

Whoa!

My understanding was that you were saying that their translation was off - not the interpretation, the translation. You picked the verse, not I. Based upon sample translations, I did not see where the NWT seemed out of line with those other translations. If your purpose is to argue interpretation, then that is something altogether different and I was not rendering any opinion as to that.

 

[Milton Platt]

One of the characteristics of a "Grand Conspiracy" is that you find it all over the place. Bible says Jesus is going to burn the entire earth so there is nothing left and then create the new Heaven and Earth in the original state. Who do the JW's believe created the first Heaven and Earth?

Interesting. So there will be a garden of Eden and a tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

 

[Kemosloby]

Interesting. So there will be a garden of Eden and a tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Don't know, the new Heaven and Earth could be different. All it says is the Earth will be burnt with fire, completely destroyed, even the elements will pass away. And it says there will be a New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[Milton Platt]

Don't know, the new Heaven and Earth could be different. All it says is the Earth will be burnt with fire, completely destroyed, even the elements will pass away. And it says there will be a New Heaven and New Earth.

Can't buy into that, sorry. If the earth will be completely destroyed, that will mean that there will literally be no earth orbiting the sun. Kinda like burning your house down to fry some bacon.

 

[Kemosloby]

Can't buy into that, sorry. If the earth will be completely destroyed, that will mean that there will literally be no earth orbiting the sun. Kinda like burning your house down to fry some bacon.

I believe somewhere else it says the foundation of the Earth will never be destroyed, So let that guide the meaning of completely destroyed. A chunk of rock, burnt dead as Mars or the Moon orbiting the Sun, then restored with life.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Clearly they believe ALL parts are allegorical.

No more than you believe all parts are literal.

 

[Grandliseur]

I had a visit from a Jehovah's Witness who left me an "Awake" magazine. I told him I would not give him .25 for it and he said I did not have to.

There are twenty biblical quotes in the magazine. Five of the quotes are word for word correct from the bible, seven of the quotes are slightly changed, and eight of the quotes are greatly changed to give the Jehovah's Witness interpretation.

Some of the quotes have the biblical reference in parenthesis as if to admit that this is not the word for word version and that it is their interpretation. Some of the quotes do not have the parenthesis and are still very changed.

When you change a biblical quote on purpose and provide a bible reference for that changed quote, that is called lying.

If you want to post a biblical quote and THEN give your Jehovah's Witness interpretation of it, that is fine, but purposely changing quotes to make the bible say what you WANT it to mean is dishonest.

First, a disclaimer of sorts, there are several places in the NWT that I strongly object to. Also, I am not with the WT, at all.

Next, translation from language to language is not a straight word for word type of activity. Some languages, at least one, cannot be translated directly into English. It would make little sense. When translating that language, it is absolutely necessary to insert many times the subject of the English sentence, even judging whether the subject is plural or singular - because in that other language, some things are said as if it is just understood who is speaking; thus, there is no need in that language to say it. (Very different)

So when you see the following: (just picked anything I could find)

NWT: Hebrews 1:10 . . .And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands.
ASV: Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:​

You can see that the brackets of the NWT gives you a very accurate way of determining where the translator had to use his discretion to insert needed things into the English for it to not be a too rough, hard to read thing. The ASV and many other translations do not tell us where this has been done. Nonetheless, it was done.

 

[Kemosloby]

No more than you believe all parts are literal.

I believe this part is.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.


New American Standard Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

That's cool.

It amazes me that a lot of non-Christians know the Bible much better than Christians do. It also saddens me.

If it makes you feel better part of the reason I'm as well read in the bible as I am is JW have regimented bible study groups throughout the week and you go through it chapter by chapter at a rate of one full read per year, and I did that like 9 years.
So at least some have a studious tradition. I'm sure it's not unique to JWs either.