Jehovah's Witness' not learnt from Catholic church

[savagewind]

@Deeje is the man lying who has said that his abuser is now allowed to study with other young boys on a one to one arrangement?

 

[savagewind]

It certainly seems to me that regarding what is in the media and online about the truth about the Witnesses, few sane people will join it but until the JW procedure of dealing with the abuse changes, most joining will be the abusers. Free abuse. Why not? I wonder if the governing body is still calling The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses a "spiritual paradise"?

 

[savagewind]

Covering up crimes is never a good idea...it is a long documentary but very good.

They will be held accountable and it'll cost them dearly in not just money but reputation.

A very good film; award-worthy, I think.

 

[Cooky]

I've seen no reason to believe that you base your opinion on evidence or facts. This I why I disregard your opinion.

LOL... Whatever that means.

...I simply told you that Catholics need not, nor do they typically go into specific details about their sins. Catholics are actually taught how to do confession, and unlike some Hollywood portrayals, confession is not like a counseling session. It's actually improper to go into detail.

If you don't want to believe that, then you can continue believing the nonsense... Whatevs.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That misses the point I made. No abuser with an IQ higher than a frog will go to confession if priests do not have this "seal". Also, the priest may be able to talk the abuser into changing their ways and/or maybe even going to the police.

The first paragraph doesn't ignore your point, the second was not intended to directly address it.
I was merely saying that we'll likely have a way of seeing the impact practically, rather than theoretically.

In more specific terms;
1) I think it's hard to know what the impact is, in truth. If someone honestly sees confession as a means of squaring things with God, I'm not sure how you'd be as dumb as a frog to go, regardless of early consequence. Are you suggesting all who confess don't actually believe it impacts beyond this mortal coil?
2) Precedent and transparent information is virtually impossible to gather. There is a book on the Catholic Confessional during the Troubles in Ireland I'd recommend 'God and the Gun'. It doesn't take sides, just tells a bunch of stories. Sure, it's more around murder than abuse, but as I said, source information is so tough to come to.
3) A few groups fall within mandatory reporting laws here. That is being expanded (quite apart from ministers) to include youth workers, psychologists, youth justice, etc. If you wanted to argue against mandatory reporting entirely, O could see the point, although I'd disagree. Exceptions for religious ministers is insulting, imho.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Personally, I never “give weight” based on “who”. It just seems like a very bad idea.

Always, verify for yourself and make decisions based on evidence and facts. Don’t be one of those people who trusts based on “who” said what.

...I was just thinking the other day how Brits were underestimated during Brexit... everyone thought they would just follow like sheeple -because ‘so and so’ said this and that... But they didn’t.

You're arguing for a considered opinion, but not offering one?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Or they would just speak in generalities, knowing that God knows what they mean. That's what I always do anyways... I see no reason to go into detail, and it's much quicker that way too, which benefits everyone waiting in line behind you.

To be honest, I doubt most priests even want to hear the details of our sins. Their main goal is absolving us... It's what they're there to do.

Then this law causes no issue, right?

 

[savagewind]

Back on topic, sometimes I have thought that the Jehovah's Witnesses are just a gross reflection of the Catholic Church. There are so many similarities that I have even thought that they are prophesied as sisters.

 

[Cooky]

Back on topic, sometimes I have thought that the Jehovah's Witnesses are just a gross reflection of the Catholic Church. There are so many similarities that I have even thought that they are prophesied as sisters.

They do copy off us big time.

 

[Cooky]

Then this law causes no issue, right?

Basically It's just for show. It's like a spanking... It hurts us, knowing that the State can fiddle with our traditions.

That's all.

 

[Cooky]

You're arguing for a considered opinion, but not offering one?

I'm not arguing for a considered opinion, I'm arguing that those pushing for this law are ignorant as to how the sacrament of confession works.

...Nobody says their exact sin. You just say which commandment you broke and how many times. There are only 10 of them.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not arguing for a considered opinion, I'm arguing that those pushing for this law are ignorant as to how the sacrament of confession works.

...Nobody says their exact sin. You just say which commandment you broke and how many times. There are only 10 of them.

I don't think they're ignorant of it, given that some of 'them' are Catholics.
It's more a question of why we should have an exception.

 

[Cooky]

I don't think they're ignorant of it, given that some of 'them' are Catholics.
It's more a question of why we should have an exception.

I just Don't get the practicality of it considering that confessions are anonymous, and often behind screens, so the priest has no idea who he's talking to.

I mean, how is it an exception that anonymous people are not held accountable? It literally makes no sense.

Or is there something I'm missing?

 

[Cooky]

Or perhaps some people think the State can dictate who does or does not receive absolution of their sins? Like the priest saying until you turn yourself in, you cannot be forgiven by God?

...But That's not what any new law is proposing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not arguing for a considered opinion, I'm arguing that those pushing for this law are ignorant as to how the sacrament of confession works.

...Nobody says their exact sin. You just say which commandment you broke and how many times. There are only 10 of them.

Something weird happened with a post I made. I'll try again.

Those pushing for this law include Catholics. It's a stretch to simply mark 'them' as ignorant of Catholic tradition and protocol.

The question, rather, is why there should be specific exemptions for ministers from a law increasingly applied here to other groups working with children, including youth workers, doctors, nurses, teachers and psychologists.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I just Don't get the practicality of it considering that confessions are anonymous, and often behind screens, so the priest has no idea who he's talking to.

I mean, how is it an exception that anonymous people are not held accountable? It literally makes no sense.

Or is there something I'm missing?

You're claiming priests never know who they're talking to? You're stretching things here...

Regardless, they are mandated to report what they know, or have strong grounds to suspect. Nothing more.

(Assuming mandatory reporting laws are extended to them)

 

[Cooky]

Something weird happened with a post I made. I'll try again.

Those pushing for this law include Catholics. It's a stretch to simply mark 'them' as ignorant of Catholic tradition and protocol.

The question, rather, is why there should be specific exemptions for ministers from a law increasingly applied here to other groups working with children, including youth workers, doctors, nurses, teachers and psychologists.

Yes, I think there's a glitch. But I do see your point. I agree, that outside the confessional, like say for example, ministers who catch wind of some abuse should be obligated to report it. I'd agree with that.

 

[metis]

Exceptions for religious ministers is insulting, imho.

But the "exceptions" are not to protect the minister but to protect the process of someone seeking help. If they didn't want help, then going to confession would make no sense because that's what confession is largely about.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not arguing for a considered opinion, I'm arguing that those pushing for this law are ignorant as to how the sacrament of confession works.

...Nobody says their exact sin. You just say which commandment you broke and how many times. There are only 10 of them.

And sometimes, a 9-year-old abuse victim, thinking that the abuse is their fault, will confess "adultery." It's at this point that a responsible, ethical adult would get more information and then immediately call the police.

 

[ecco]

... unless he thinks the fate of his immortal soul depends on him confession.


They've had that option all along. How did it work out?

I wonder, do pedophile priests confess to other priests? If they only confess to other pedophile priests, isn't that just a way of exciting one another and passing around names of vulnerable kids?