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Jealousy and the Jealous God

d.

_______
Tigress said:
I've seen it mentioned in a couple of threads lately--Jealousy, one of the 'sinliest' of sins. My question is, how do you reconcile this sin of jealousy with your sinless God?

it would be interesting if somebody knew if the hebrew word used for 'jealous' in 'jealous god' is the same as when jealousy is talked about as a sin - or if it's something that happened in translation?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
divine said:
it would be interesting if somebody knew if the hebrew word used for 'jealous' in 'jealous god' is the same as when jealousy is talked about as a sin - or if it's something that happened in translation?

In Exodus 20:5, 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, Eze. 39:25, Zech. 1:14 and Joe. 2:18 it's qanna' or qana'

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In Joshua 24:19 and Nahum 1:2, it's qannow'

Numbers 5:30 uses qana' and qinah' in describing jealousy of a man over his wife.


According to Strong's Hebrew lexicon, qana' is the metaphorical sense of "to become very red" and is the root for all the other variations. They are translated as "jealous" in the sense of not permitting any rival.
 

d.

_______
doppleganger said:
In Exodus 20:5, 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, Eze. 39:25, Zech. 1:14 and Joe. 2:18 it's qanna' or qana'

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hs360.gif
hs367.gif


In Joshua 24:19 and Nahum 1:2, it's qannow'

Numbers 5:30 uses qana' and qinah' in describing jealousy of a man over his wife.


According to Strong's Hebrew lexicon, qana' is the metaphorical sense of "to become very red" and is the root for all the other variations. They are translated as "jealous" in the sense of not permitting any rival.

thank you. :)
 

arthra

Baha'i
There is an interesting site that goes into the meaning of "jealousy" at

http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07068

You can also click on the word "ginah" and hear it in Hebrew.

There's only reference I'm aware of in our Baha'i Writings to a Jealous God but the context is a little unusual:

“If ye be slain it is better for you than that ye should slay. And when ye are tormented have recourse to the controllers of affairs and the refuge of the people; and if ye be neglected then entrust your affairs to the Jealous Lord. This is the mark of the sincere, and the characteristic of the assured.”

- Art
 

writer

Active Member
15 A creation of each believer's ego perhaps?
I'd say we can create idols. But God created us

That would explain why "He" seems "to have a lot of human emotions and human fragility" wouldn't it?
My God Christ's human but not frail

17 Did I use the wrong word?
I took 'transcendent' to mean transcendent

I can't be jealous of a being that may or may not exist.
God duzn't may or may not exist. He jus is

you will find that he expresses many of his attributes that seem more likely found in human than in what suppose to be a Supreme Being.
What is suppose to be a Supreme Being? Accordin to the Bible, the Supreme Being made us in His likeness to become one o' us

Look at God's reply to Job, and tell me that doesn't sound like a boastful arrogant human being? Some of it even come out sounding childish or petty.
That doesn't sound like a boastful, arrogant, childish, or petty human being. Nor like a boastful, arrogant, childish, petty God. Rather: it sounds tru

Why have a law in the Exodus that say they must not worship no other gods but him?
Cuz He's jealous for them (cf also 2 Cor 11:2-3)

Such law seem to deny the Israelites any right to choose another religion. imply that the Israelites have no free will.
Then why did many Israelites 'choose another religion'?

Does that not like jealousy to you?
Yes. He says so (2 Cor 11:2-3; Ex 20:5)

This commandment also sounds like there are other gods, other than him.
Yes. Idols (1 Jn 5:21; Rv 22:15; 2 Cor 6:16)

19 The Bible does not anywhere give an indication that jealousy isn't a sin when applied to God.
To contrary: God's sinless and jealous for man
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
writer said:
*I'd say we can create idols. But God created us*
But if you created a "God" for your self to believe in, isn't that exactly what you'd say?

writer said:
*My God (Christ)'s human but not frail*
I was quoting you there. Your use of "My God [is]. . . " is interesting though . . . .
 

writer

Active Member
1 I've seen it mentioned in a couple of threads lately--Jealousy, one of the 'sinliest' of sins. My question is, how do you reconcile this sin of jealousy with your sinless God?
Jealousy's also sinless in man, in the Bible, depending on the context. For instance jealousy of a husband for his wife's not sin. Nor should it be. Nor is it. Nor would it be. Since she's his wife. Likewise of wife for husband. Jealousy, however, over something or someone not rightly one's--now that's sin. Akin to coveting. Like if i'm jealous of attention you're receiving, or of your wife

27 But if you created a "God" for your self to believe in, isn't that exactly what you'd say?
Not if i were bein honest

My God...
God's eternal purpose, as revealed in the O and N T, is for Him to be to the ultimate Our God, personal God. That's why He became human. In addition He Did become frail to allow Himself to be crucified by His creations (Jn 18:4-8; Philip 2:6-8).
Thanx
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
writer said:
27 But if you created a "God" for your self to believe in, isn't that exactly what you'd say?
*Not if i were bein honest*

It doesn't require dishonesty though, does it? If I imagine an alternative reality built around objectifying or concretizing the experiences of my mind, I may very well honestly believe that what I have objectified is objectively real. Indeed, that would be a necessary part of the objectification of "God." Subjectively, I wouldn't know the difference without becoming "concept aware."

writer said:
My God...
*God's eternal purpose, as revealed in the O and N T, is for Him to be to the ultimate Our God, personal God. That's why He became human. In addition He Did become frail to allow Himself to be crucified by His creations (Jn 18:4-8; Philip 2:6-8).

Setting aside the scripture citations for a second (argument by appeal to authority generally doesn't mean anything to me), what does it mean to you to say you have a "personal God"? Describe your experience of this "personal God" if you could please?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, by the way. This is an interesting conversation.
 

writer

Active Member
29 Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, by the way. This is an interesting conversation.
Thank u 4 takin the time to respond 'n ask. I 'preciate it

Setting aside the scripture citations for a second (argument by appeal to authority generally doesn't mean anything to me),
Wuznt arguin there in that exact quote. Only illustratin. In any case, if the original poster was askin Christians to reconcile what appeared contradictory in her mind concernin words from the Bible: that necessarily required arguin from the Bible (tho i wasn't doin that in that particular quote)

It doesn't require dishonesty though, does it?
i think claimin an idol, or invented God 2 b God requires dishonesty. I think it Is dishonesty. Unhonest

If I imagine an alternative reality built around objectifying or concretizing the experiences of my mind, I may very well honestly believe that what I have objectified is objectively real.
Then mebbe we cood call that self-deceit

Indeed, that would be a necessary part of the objectification of "God."
If God's real, He duzn't need any help bein so

what does it mean to you to say you have a "personal God"? Describe your experience of this "personal God" if you could please?
It means i feel, felt, talked with, listened to, meet/met, encounter(ed), was/am bowled-over, 'n experience(d) Him az.......a Person.
Thanx. Take care.
 

spacemonkey

Pneumatic Spiritualist
The god of the OT is jealous because he is not the TRUE GOD. He is the Demiurge, the craftsman, one with form but without the spark of divinity that he trapped here on his creation to create us. He is jealous of HUMANITY, because we have souls unlike himself or any of his creations. We were not created by him, we were trapped.
 

Tigress

Working-Class W*nch.
writer said:
*To the contrary: God's sinless and jealous for man*
So the definition of and, or sinful status of jealousy changes when applied to God? :sarcastic
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
spacemonkey said:
The god of the OT is jealous because he is not the TRUE GOD. He is the Demiurge, the craftsman, one with form but without the spark of divinity that he trapped here on his creation to create us. He is jealous of HUMANITY, because we have souls unlike himself or any of his creations. We were not created by him, we were trapped.
It's ironic you say that He is jealous of us,when you look at man striving to be gods or like a god in the pursuit of knowledge,wisdom and truth of this universe.
God is all wisdom ,truth and knowledge.
We were shells until he breathed the spirit of life into Adam and man became a living soul.
By the way He is jealous in the sense, He will not share His glory with anyone nor allow us to worship ourselves or any other idols
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Tigress said:
I've seen it mentioned in a couple of threads lately--Jealousy, one of the 'sinliest' of sins. My question is, how do you reconcile this sin of jealousy with your sinless God?
My interpretation of the way the word "jealous" is used in describing God is that it simply means "demanding exclusive loyalty." I don't see it as a petty thing, but something that just makes sense. After all, for those who believe He is our Creator, the idea that we shouldn't split our allegiance between Him and someone or something else is entirely reasonable.
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
spacemonkey said:
The god of the OT is jealous because he is not the TRUE GOD. He is the Demiurge, the craftsman, one with form but without the spark of divinity that he trapped here on his creation to create us. He is jealous of HUMANITY, because we have souls unlike himself or any of his creations. We were not created by him, we were trapped.
Hmmm, could you elaborate a bit about how we were trapped? What do you exactly mean?
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
Maybe the word "jealous" was misinterpreted and was actually meant to denote some other meaning.:cool:
I don't like that verse at all either, it sounds like God is mean...if it were directly from him, he could have said something like, "I am worthy of worship, I gave you the gift of life, and I love you and I intend for you to love me also." Or something like that.:D
 

shema

Active Member
Tigress said:
I've seen it mentioned in a couple of threads lately--Jealousy, one of the 'sinliest' of sins. My question is, how do you reconcile this sin of jealousy with your sinless God?
1. God's Definition of Jealous is Different from man.
2. there were I think two or three words for jealous in the original hebrew text. they all meant different things Im sure you all can look them up. The one that was refering to God's disposition in Genisis, meant something different. but it wasn't the same as man's sinful jealous nature.
 

writer

Active Member
32 So the definition of and, or sinful status of jealousy changes when applied to God?
No. Why would they?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
tlcmel said:
Hmmm, could you elaborate a bit about how we were trapped? What do you exactly mean?
In Gnostic cosmology the creator god of the world is not God, but a poor imitation, thus the world he created is a poor imitation of the divine fullness above.

Mankind was created by him as an imitation of the perfect human he glimpsed from above, he could not animate humanity without infusing us with divine power that he stole from his mother, thus trapping her divine sparks within his creation.

He is jealous of us because he have the power to escape his inferior creation and rise above him to the true God, he is also jealous of his mother and the other divine Aeons who reside in the fullness of God that he is separated from.
 
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