Jealous God

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, Yahweh is the only deity I know of that gets angry when you worship other deities. However, Ahura Mazda is probably another since the other gods were demonized/demoted in Zoroastrianism and both Judaism and Christianity are rip-offs of Zoroastrianism to a large extent.

 

[Thief]

If it was test of curiosity, then there would be no need to punish them for eating the fruit. Clearly Eve was curious to know what knowledge what the Tree may give out, in spite of warning God to Adam earlier.

But the moral of story is not about curiosity, but about "obedience", to do what God say. That's the test that Adam and Eve had failed.



Again, it has nothing to do with being "curious". When God tested Abraham, it was not just a test of faith, but about blind loyalty. He commanded Abraham to kill Isaac, and it would seem that Abraham have no remorse of doing as God say.

God may have spared Isaac, but I find Abraham's behaviour - his willingness to sacrifice his son for future rewards (ie God's covenant to Abraham) as the same as what we would call today, a sociopath and a fanatic.



Do you mean having a mind set of petty and arrogant tyrant?

Sure, if you like a god who like to make people at whim...then he is perfect. God would be great role model for Stalin and Hitler.

Nay.....there was no punishment
the entire garden event was an experiment to alter the body and mind of Man
would Man want to know the difference of good and evil?......even as death may be the result
Eve went for it
Adam followed
the test was postive

Man had become that creature curious to know even in the face of death

the garden had served it's purpose and was dismantled

the specimens were returned to the environment

they would see it as a loss.....of course they would

 

[1213]

...
That’s where I don’t think people should be punished for not believing. That’s not love, but slavery.

Do you seriously think that verses are not wrong?

It seems to be speaking of people who do evil and wrong things. Not about does person believe something.

Death is wage of sin and sin is if people reject God and rejecting God means person rejects God’s law that people should love others as themselves. So, if person does bad things to others, he has rejected God and wage of that is death.


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Eternal life is for righteous and I believe it is because righteous people are loyal to God, understand what is right and live by it.


These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

 

[gnostic]

It seems to be speaking of people who do evil and wrong things.

Reread the 2nd commandment.

It clearly saying worshipping other gods and making idols of other gods, is a sin, and that children and descendants would also be punished, for the sin of the father.

The verses are talking about that sin, and not talking about any other.

Which mean it is a sin, for any Israelite, to break this commandment, of not worshipping god alone.

What I don’t understand is why you are trying to change the context of the verses.

 

[gnostic]

Nay.....there was no punishment
the entire garden event was an experiment to alter the body and mind of Man
would Man want to know the difference of good and evil?......even as death may be the result
Eve went for it
Adam followed
the test was postive

Man had become that creature curious to know even in the face of death

the garden had served it's purpose and was dismantled

the specimens were returned to the environment

they would see it as a loss.....of course they would

According to Christian teaching, Satan is the devil, a personification of evil and lies. A trickster.

To the Jews, he is an agent of god responsible for testing people’s faith and loyalty.

But if god is the one testing Adam and Eve, the so-called experiment, then isn’t god the original trickster, god of evil and lies?

 

[Thief]

According to Christian teaching, Satan is the devil, a personification of evil and lies. A trickster.

To the Jews, he is an agent of god responsible for testing people’s faith and loyalty.

But if god is the one testing Adam and Eve, the so-called experiment, then isn’t god the original trickster, god of evil and lies?

you almost made a point........almost.....

Man is a blend of spirit and flesh
this life creates a new soul on each occasion

on Day Six ....Man was only a new species
top of the line....but animal none the less

with better abilities Man would have overrun the planet and it's resources
long before the spiritual qualities would gel

so...either slow the population rate
or fix that animal so it will behave better

Adam is a chosen son of God (new testament)
not the first man to walk this earth
but the first to walk with God
in ideal living conditions

Eve is a clone....no navel

that union would influence the body and mind .....forever
it does not take away evolution
it just sends this species in a different direction

the test was needful.....to demonstrate freewill

if your creation obeys ALL spoken words......it doesn't think for itself
it will need a baby sitter.....this world and the next

so you give it a choice....see if curiosity is greater than the fear of death

death was always in the scheme of things

 

[gnostic]

Adam is a chosen son of God (new testament)
not the first man to walk this earth
but the first to walk with God
in ideal living conditions

Eve is a clone....no navel

You do realise that you are misusing the word “clone”, don’t you?

A clone is a carbon copy of the original person, so it should have same sex.

So if Eve is a “clone” of Adam, then Eve would also be another man.

If Eve is a woman, then she isn’t a “clone”.

Beside all that. What does your entire entire post, have to do with anything I said.

If God experimented on Adam and Eve, as in testing their behaviour, their loyalty, their obedience, their faith, etc, then God is just like Satan, who does the same thing as Job in the Book of Job.

And if Satan is the Trickster, as depicted in the New Testament, then so is God, in the Old Testament.

 

[1213]

...Which mean it is a sin, for any Israelite, to break this commandment, of not worshipping god alone.

What I don’t understand is why you are trying to change the context of the verses.

Sorry, I understood that you were speaking about that not believing is the problem. I agree that doing against God’s will is the problem. Person who does against God’s will, is probably not righteous and only righteous will have eternal life according to the Bible.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry, I understood that you were speaking about that not believing is the problem. I agree that doing against God’s will is the problem. Person who does against God’s will, is probably not righteous and only righteous will have eternal life according to the Bible.

Only in the New Testament.

The other half of bible that Christians have - the Old Testament - does not say anything about any human having eternal life; only God has eternal life.

Adam and Eve were created with immortal bodies, and the only way they "could have" live forever, if they eat from the Tree of Life, which they never did. They were banished from Eden, to prevent them from eating the fruit from the Tree of Life.

The funny thing is, at the end of Genesis 3, God place an angel with flaming sword, to prevent everyone from entering the Garden of Eden. If God really didn't want Adam to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, then WHY didn't God put an angel in front of the Tree of Knowledge in the first place? Is God not omniscience?

 

[Thief]

You do realise that you are misusing the word “clone”, don’t you?

A clone is a carbon copy of the original person, so it should have same sex.

So if Eve is a “clone” of Adam, then Eve would also be another man.

If Eve is a woman, then she isn’t a “clone”.

Beside all that. What does your entire entire post, have to do with anything I said.

If God experimented on Adam and Eve, as in testing their behaviour, their loyalty, their obedience, their faith, etc, then God is just like Satan, who does the same thing as Job in the Book of Job.

And if Satan is the Trickster, as depicted in the New Testament, then so is God, in the Old Testament.

Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

no one lied in the garden

 

[1213]

Only in the New Testament.

The other half of bible that Christians have - the Old Testament - does not say anything about any human having eternal life; only God has eternal life.

OT says:

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

And same is obviously in NT also:

Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith."
Galatians 3:11

...If God really didn't want Adam to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, then WHY didn't God put an angel in front of the Tree of Knowledge in the first place? Is God not omniscience?

Obviously, God wanted us to have chance to reject Him. But if evil (unrighteous) people could have chance to live forever, they would make eternal life to eternal suffering for all. Getting the knowledge is not as dangerous and bad as evil people getting eternal life.

 

[gnostic]

Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

If Eve come from Adam’s body, then technically, she would be more like his daughter.

 

[gnostic]

OT says:

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

And same is obviously in NT also:

Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith."
Galatians 3:11

Nothing in that those 2 quoted verses say anything about having "eternal life".

All they have in common, is that the righteous person "will live by faith", not "will live forever".

Even if you were to read the whole chapter of Habukkuk (2), there is no instance, where it say that this person will live in eternal "afterlife" in "heaven", as in heaven being the realm of God.

You are trying to change the context of the verses, if you think it mean "live forever" or "eternal life".

 

[gnostic]

Obviously, God wanted us to have chance to reject Him. But if evil (unrighteous) people could have chance to live forever, they would make eternal life to eternal suffering for all. Getting the knowledge is not as dangerous and bad as evil people getting eternal life.

I see no indication that Adam and Eve were evil.

You do remember, the original post, where PopeADope cited Exodus 34:14 and I have quoted Exodus 20:4-6, the second of the Ten Commandments - as God don't want his people to worship other gods, don't you?

I am trying to keep this thread on track.

There is no indication that Adam and Eve didn't believe in God, nor are there any sign of them creating idols and worshipping other gods.

The only sin they have committed, is disobeying God's warning about the Tree of Knowledge.

But Eve didn't disobey God because she was worshipping idols or other gods. No, her disobedience come from being persuaded to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.

Eve being "naive" is not a sin, and it certainly don’t make her “evil”.

Being naive, only mean the person lack education and experience, so he or she can either be persuaded or misled.

And since the Tree of Life can supposedly give eternal life, and the Tree of Knowledge can endow the eater with knowledge to distinguish good and bad, right and wrong, Eve wouldn't be able to judge the serpent's words and judge lies from the truth...unless she eat the fruit beforehand.

Children can be naive, where they can be "persuaded" by something that's not true. Do you think the naivety of a child makes the child "evil", 1213?

 

[Sha'irullah]

In all of my study I have found that the notion of a jealous god is actually quite common even in Paganism although it does not have the same implications of monotheistic religions. Simply put, dedication to a god furthers loyalty and loyalty fervers obedience and obedience furthers blessings.

Most polytheists still retain a notion of a patron deity and have deities they always come back to even if worshiping another. I for example show respect for many gods but I always go back to Minerva like a lost puppy

 

[1213]

Nothing in that those 2 quoted verses say anything about having "eternal life".

All they have in common, is that the righteous person "will live by faith", not "will live forever".
....

It says person lives, and if person lives, he is not dead or dying. When there is no limit for the length, it can be seen as eternal.

 

[1213]

...There is no indication that Adam and Eve didn't believe in God, nor are there any sign of them creating idols and worshipping other gods.

The only sin they have committed, is disobeying God's warning about the Tree of Knowledge.

They rejected God and replaced Him with the serpent, which seems to be same as idolatry. Also, they didn’t love God, they loved more the serpent and the idea of becoming like God.

Believing in God, if it means, believes that God exists, is not really any sign of goodness, according to the Bible, even demons believe that God is.

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

 

[gnostic]

They rejected God and replaced Him with the serpent, which seems to be same as idolatry. Also, they didn’t love God, they loved more the serpent and the idea of becoming like God.

Now you making things up.

No where in Genesis does it say they rejected god.

Their second son, Abel.

I don’t know what the name mean, but anytime Hebrew names contain the letters “el”, it mean it is related to one of God’s names, “El”.

Both Cain and Abel offered sacrifices to god, not to any serpent. So they weren’t worshipping any other gods.

And when they had Seth, Eve said -

“God has appointed for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him.”

If you really believe that Adam and Eve didn’t believe in God, then why mention God in this verse.

Sorry, 1213, but you making things up. And, you are simply making excuses.

I was never baptised, but between 15 and 34, I was a believer of the Christian faith, and believed in Jesus.

I only became agnostic, when I came to realisation, that Christian teachings have interpret the Old Testament wrongly, in a number of keys areas, especially when they tried to tie Jesus to some OT passages, the so-called messianic prophecies.

That’s when I lost trust with Christianity and their churches, because I don’t think their teachings are reliable or honest.

And having exchange a few replies, here and other threads, I don’t trust your interpretation to any passage of the bible as well.

 

[1213]

Now you making things up.
No where in Genesis does it say they rejected god.

When they decided to listen and believe the serpent instead of God and chose to go against God’s will, they rejected God. Rejecting God is that you reject His words as Adam and Eve did.

 

[gnostic]

When they decided to listen and believe the serpent instead of God and chose to go against God’s will, they rejected God. Rejecting God is that you reject His words as Adam and Eve did.

You don’t understand the paradox in the Eden story.

How is Eve to know, not to listen to the serpent, 1213?

If the Tree of Life supposed to give eternal life, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil”, then this Tree of Knowledge is supposed to give understanding to make judgement between food and bad.

BUT, she has not eaten from the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, yet...so she doesn’t know how to distinguish between good and bad, between right and wrong, between truth and lie, YET.

You cannot possibly think Eve is wrong to listen, when she doesn’t have that ability to make such judgement, yet...until she has eaten from that banned Tree.

They only know their actions were wrong AFTER they ate from the Tree of Knowledge:

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened...

It is only when their “eyes were opened”, that they saw the consequences of disobeying God.