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Japan had reasons to attack America

Discussion in 'Historical Debates' started by Spiderman, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Okay, did they have reason to attack America? Not exactly. But yes, kind of.

    They weren't the good guys in World War 2 , but America showed up at Japan in 1850Something, Matthew Perry, firing cannons when the Japanese were minding their own business, and Matthew threatened war with Japan and that America would bring 100 ships to **** them up in an all-out war.

    Both sides eventually compromised on the tiny village of Yokohama, where a purpose-built hall was erected.

    But there was severe tension in Japan because they had never seen cannons , heard them fire, and they were an isolated nation.

    What they felt was America was going to colonize them and Asia with Europe. Europeans colonized Vietnam and much of Asia and Japan wanted to boot them out.

    So, they decided they would colonize some of Asia before Europe and America did.

    What Japan did in world war 2 was terrible, but praying to Hirohito who was against the war actually, and praying to Amaterasu, and soldiers of Yasukuni shrine, got me graces and signs beyond anything like praying to Jesus ever got me.

    So that kind of turned me into a Japanese nationalist , training to be a Shinobe Ninja Samurai at the moment. :)

    The Russian Empire stepped in, biggest Empire on earth with more men deployed and better weapons , and the Japanese handed Russia's *** to them and won the war in less than two years. That was the first Russo Japanese war and no one understood how a small island archipeligo with less technology, less men, inferior weapons, could do that to a large advanced Empire of Caucasians.
     
    #1 Spiderman, Apr 23, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  2. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    The Sino Japanese war shifted regional dominance from China to Japan, when in 1895 the Quing Dynasty, Guangxu Emperor decided he could defeat Japan with far greater number of men. The Quing Empire lost every single battle and sued for peace.

    Japan conquered and secured Vietnam with 10,000 men in less than two weeks. America tried to secure half of Vietnam with over two million men and failed in over ten years.

    Put the military of Imperial Japan on a battle field on land against America during world war 2 and Japan would have won were it just America and Japan in the ring.

    The Japanese committed some of the worst war crimes of world war two, but I totally get why they were so angry and Europeans and Americans have done our share of war crimes and sometimes we didn't get a slap on the wrist for it either.

    America is the reason Japan started colonizing Asia.

    Emperor Hirohito actually gives me more graces than Jesus Christ and gave me the coat with flag of the rising sun, the day of most fervent prayer as you probably know. For guests, the flag has an H under it and I wrote letters all night and morning to Hirohito and I just called him "H".

    I asked if I could receive the sacrament of Shinto confirmation. When Catholics receive the sacrament of confirmation, they take a name of a Saint. I asked if I could be confirmed "H" (Hirohito).

    Minutes after receiving Holy Communion for H and those intentions, this is on sidewalk outside the Church.

    image_15507.jpg
    Amaterasu is called "August Queen" and that was August 1st.


    8 is the perfect number in Shinto and essentially the official number of Shinto. It was 8th month. The teeth on the jacket are shark teeth and the soldiers of Yasukuni put me through boot camp. In boot camp, shark attack is hard to survive and supposed to break you down for your own good. That's precisely what happened.

    The camouflage is the brotherhood of Nod, and I dwell in the Land of Nod.

    I bought a lighter that day. I didn't know it had a shark on it till after I bought it.

    The war dead of Japan have actually provided for me and protected me in jails and some situations. I surrendered to them before I knew they were all enshrined, or that the Religion I was practicing comes from Japan.

    I sang a song in 2015 , before I even knew anything about Shinto or Yasukuni shrine (where they pay homage to all War dead).

    I chanted

    Hirohito I'm with you
    A fathful POW
    with the victims that lost their lives in Hiroshima

    Mother Mary's gonna love this one
    When we restore the Empire of the Sun

    Take me down to Tokyo,
    Make my Spirit whole
    let's exalt Japan and have some fun

    Jesus Christ is gonna love this one
    when we restore the Empire of the sun

    Turn Communist China upside down
    give them government that's sound
    lets crush Marxism and have some fun
    Saints and Angels are gonna love this one
    When we restore the Empire of the Sun

    May I be your dog and your machine
    A faithful prisoner of the Japanese
    PoW
    forever I am chained to you
    With the victims that lost their lives in Hiroshima....

    I was chanting that song before I knew about Yasukuni shrine, my favorite structure on earth, where millions of wardead are enshrined. I was surrendered to Hirohito as my higher power.

    I learned about Shinto years after I was building essentially Shinto shrines and turned my cupboard into a Kamidana (place reserved only for enshrined Kami to dwell) shrine , before knowing that is a Shinto practice (or what a Kamidana is).

    Forces are at work. As I said, I found a circular mirror on Japan day, with Japan paper in my hand, while praying for Japan. Then found Circular mirror monument next to the cannon that sunk the first Japanese ship in World War 2 in "Lot H". Circular mirror was Amaterasu's gift to first Emperor Japan Jimmu. It's the highest relic in Shinto.

    Back to the main topic. America created Imperial Japan and their wars of aggression imo with our threatening them and firing cannons.

    Soldiers of Imperial Japan, Hirohito, Amaterasu have been nothing but kind to me. Hideki Tojo , after he shot himself in the heart and survived, repented and took responsibility, apologizing to people as he was put back together just to be hung. He said all was his fault and he was sorry. He even said he was sorry that he wasn't dead.

    He is enshrined at Yasukuni and wasn't good with many of his crimes , but you can't keep kicking an unloved abused puppy. It will just keep getting more vicious. If you love a dog it turns out way nicer. In Shinto, you don't stomp on the demons head like Christians do.

    You are supposed to be kind to all Kami in Shinto. Jesus said "love your enemies". He needs to practice what he preaches.

    But practicing Shinto did me far more good than anything. The Kami repeatedly have shown all sorts of signs they are working in my life. Jesus and the Bible never did that for me.

    Emperor Showa (Hirohito) be exalted, be God-Emperor of Heaven and earth. Give me unflinching loyaty to you, the Kamikaze, and soldiers of Yasukuni! Amen!
     
  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    They weren’t the “bad guys” in WWII. They were the Allies opposition. I mean I think the decision to attack America was a little dumb, but eh hindsight I suppose.
    I did always find it a bit odd that the Japanese basically sided with a regime who considered them inferior, right? I mean the Nazis weren’t exactly egalitarian thinkers.
     
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  4. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    The Japanese had invaded China several times since the late 19th century, the last time being the 1937 invasion of Northern China following an incident in Beijing which junior officers of the Japanese Kwantung Army had provoked in order to have a pretext to open hostilities.

    First Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia
    Japanese invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia
    Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia

    The Japanese invasion forces behaved every bit as badly as the worst excesses of the imperialist Europeans had showed half a century ago. The Japanese army would seize railroads, industrial centers, mines and other economically advantageous territory, with the goal to extract valuable resources and turn China into a Japanese colony. The Imperial army and its support elements kidnapped Chinese and Korean women and forced them into army-exclusive brothels. They would adapt this system of "Comfort Women" to other war theatres as well, seizing women from Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan etc.

    What drew the United States' ire here were arguably two reasons:
    • First, the Japanese attacks on the Guomindang government, which was on friendly terms with the US (and would continue to be on friendly terms with the US to this present day, as the KMT would later form the independent Chinese government of Taiwan).
    • Second, the Japanese perchant for half-cocked terrorism and rampant brutality against the Chinese civilian population, which produced a string of highly publicized international incidents, the most infamous and well known being the Nanjing Massacre, which resulted in civilian casualties between 200,000 and 300,000.

    It was such incidents that prompted the US to impose sanctions on Japan, whose industry was dependent on imports of oil, ores and scrap metal from the 'States. These sanctions propelled a faction of the Japanese military to prominence who had long argued in favor of a Japanese colonial empire, with Japan's goal to be economically independent in terms of resources crucial for Japan's war industry. And so, the Imperial army and navy drew up plans to invade Southeast Asia, which was only lightly defended at the time, as the 1939 outbreak of WW2 had drawn British and French forces away from Asia and into Europe to face the German armies there, while their colonial territories in Asia were being neglected militarily (Japan had been a longterm ally of the UK since the 19th century, and only in the early 1930s had broken that alliance due to diplomatic incidents following the Japanese invasion of Manchuria).

    The only obstacle to this large scale invasion of an entire subcontinent was the US Pacific Fleet, which would not stand idly by when Japanese forces would invade US-controlled Philippines or neutral Dutch Indonesia - and so, the Imperial navy was forced to draw up a plan of attack that would neutralize the US fleet, or at the very least damage it badly enough that the US would not be ready for a full war for some time.

    And that is why, in December 1941, a Japanese fleet launched a surprise attack against the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
     
  5. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Japanese military forces committed horrible atrocities against civilian populations under their occupation, engaging in massacres and widespread human trafficking, unethical human experiments, and racist occupation policies that were so bad that they almost made Southeast Asia's erstwhile colonial masters from Europe look favorable by comparison (and there was little positive for the natives to find in European colonialism, mind you). Some Southeast Asian freedom movements got started as resistance movements against the Japanese occupation, such as e.g. the Viet Minh.

    A good rule of thumb to keep in mind that fascism, racism, and especially racist fascist ideologies such as Nazism, do not arise from logically consistent argumentation, but rather, racial fears and fantasies of machistic strength - as a result, their ideological foundations are often not based on logically coherent or even particularly sensible beliefs. Nazi views of race in particular was essentially arbitrary and highly malleable due to realpolitik, and quite a few Nazi allies would be promoted to "honorary Aryans" out of political necessity.

    In essence, however, Nazi Germany and Japan bonded over a common enemy, the Soviet Union. If Japan had not pursued its "Southern strategy" of occupying Southeast Asia, it might as well have joined the German attack; in fact, I recently read that some influential military figures were ready to invade if the German army had struck a decisive blow against the Red Army. Of course, such a decisive blow never came, and by the time the Germans had consolidated their front in Russia, most of Japan's forces had already been committed elsewhere.

    It is also worth noting that the Japanese nationalist elite maintained its own crude racial theory, in which the Japanese unsurprisingly saw themselves as racially superior to all other Asian people.
     
    #5 Kooky, Apr 23, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  6. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Any alliance with Germany at that time is terrible, but the leader praised China and Japan as equal to Aryans.

    Chinese and Japanese were seen as “honorary Aryans”.

    At one point, Hitler said " I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their history is superior to our own."

    Google it and you will get the results

    Funny thing is, he considered Japanese and Chinese honorary Aryan, but Italians were not.
     
  7. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    You said up to 300,000 massacred.

    Some scholars have a consensus that the correct number massacred at Nanking was 40,000.

    Also, the interesting thing is, many Chinese people will insist Japan still owes them reparations, and those same people burn incense to Mao Zedong who killed more than 15 times as many Chinese people as the Japanese did.

    The Soviets were the most evil mass murderers in World War 2 who invaded Poland when the Germans did, and took over Eastern Europe without a slap on the wrist. The Soviet Union earned the nickname "army of rapists" when they caused the biggest single mass rape epidemic in history.

    German girls as young as 6 and women older than 80 were publicly gang raped. Even female Soviet soldiers joked and laughed about it.

    Germans exposed the horrors of what they did and paid reparations. So did Japan. Where did the Soviets or Chinese expose the horrors of their errors or pay reparations?

    Mao Zedong is hailed as a hero and he was the greatest mass murderer in history, and he is on Chinese currency. Rather than offer an apology like Hideki Tojo did, China glorifies the greatest killing machine earth has ever seen.

    Yet Antifa waves Communist flags. It's disgusting.
     
  8. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Ahh good point
     
  9. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Hitler said a lot of things. He also lamented that they were giving the “soft” faith of Christianity whereas Muslims were given Muhammad.

    Hitler and his theories are pretty....well I always found them largely incongruent and inconsistent. Almost like he has all these conflicting philosophies jostling for position
    But then again I’m not a Nazi so
     
  10. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    He was terrible. I don't and never will understand how a nation of people brilliant enough to create the best weapons of that time and inflict that many casualties and conquer that many countries quickly, could rally behind someone so stupid. Really??
     
  11. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    I’m right there with you buddy.
    I have an entire collection of non fiction books about Hitler and the rise and fall of the third Reich and I still can’t get my head around it.
    I suppose it’s important to remember that Hitler (who is undoubtably an evil monster, don’t get me wrong here) was a brilliant orator and public speaker. He created a cult of personality around him which drew hardcore supporters. He was also very “mask on” during the early days. Paying lip service to then popular socialist ideals (which is why they were called The Nationalist Socialists, at least before the “night of the long knives.”) Scapegoating the enemy to a broken and embittered German Public who felt hard done by post WWI. Utilising the long held underlying anti Semitic thoughts that were around for centuries beforehand.
    And that can be persuasive to some. Hell there were even “Jews for Hitler.” Perhaps because of internalised self hate or naivety regarding just how dangerous the rhetoric actually was.
    Hitler even had his own gay best friend (Ernst Rohm) and apparently protected him for as long as he could. Or at least until his usefulness dried up.
    Before Hitler invaded Poland, the world leaders seemed to regard him as a creepy little weirdo. But did seem to praise him for his strict tough love approach, which they saw as “whipping Germany back into shape.”
     
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  12. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    He was telling them what they wanted to hear.
     
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  13. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    The thing I thought they did well was wear nice uniforms and had some animal welfare programs and the leader was a vegetarian who lamented the treatment of animals at slaughterhouses.

    He thought animals were more innocent than people so deserved better treatment. Kind of interesting.

    Other than that, nothing appealing about them. Communism though is far worse, and it doesn't get any coverage in my public schools growing up.

    Germans and Japanese paid reparations for their crimes. They didn't repair the damage done, but they paid reparations nonetheless.

    Communist China has a higher kill count than both combined by far , and rather than say they are sorry , they glorify it and worship the biggest mass murderer in history.

    That really bothers me. It's actually socially acceptable here in America to wear shirts that glorify Communism.

    Russia never paid reparation for killing far far more people than Germany did and causing the single greatest rape epidemic in history. I don't recall an apology.

    To see countries now a days still glorifying some of the worst people , (and it's accepted and promoted by antifa ) or in our public schools , makes me sick.

    China still has resturants and hotels that don't serve black people. The government doesn't just remain silent about that. They promote it. Could you imagine if a hotel or restaurant wanted that in America? China is the most racist place I know of come to think of it.

    The holocausts committed by that regime were never taught while I was in school.

    Nothing against Chinese people. I'm not saying there is something wrong with them. I love Taiwan and the Chinese who fought the Communists. There are Chinese people I pray to and don't have an issue with ethnic background. It's a problem with the regime.
     
  14. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Ehh, not a lot of actual communists would agree that the so called Chinese Communist Party are legitimately communist in nature. Socialist, maybe. But capitalist counties are a blend anyway.
    I mean the Nazis called themselves socialists and they killed all the actual socialists
     
  15. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    If it makes you feel better, I don't think the widespread atrocities of the Japanese army in WW2 are being taught to Japanese schoolchildren either, as far as I know.
     
  16. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    First of all, Antifa is not an organization.
    Second of all, the flag most common among antifascist rallies are these two:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    These were the flags flown by the original Antifaschistische Aktion, a movement of socialists, Communists and Anarchists fighting against actual for real Nazis in 1930s Germany. The twin red and black symbolize leftist unity (with black standing for Anarchism and red standing for Marxism/Socialism)

    Antifa (Germany) - Wikipedia


    There is no actual "Communist" flag, although many different Communist regimes have had their own flags. The red flag that is popular among revolutionary leftists is actually the flag of the Paris Communards, an Anarchist uprising that predates the communist revolutions of the 20th century by a good 50 years.
     
  17. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    @Spiderman
    "Some scholars" is an interesting weasle word. Which scholars? Reputable ones, whose findings have been reviewed favorably by their peers?
    The 200,000 number is the official number claimed by the War Crime trials in Tokyo, and the 300,000 is the official number claimed by PRC historians.

    Obviously, the exact numbers will always remain variable by necessity, as contrary to what many non-historians seem to think, it's not actually all that simple to track down dead people if they're not wealthy and come up with really ironclad numbers. The Holocaust Archive for example still has tens of thousands of Nazi documents to go through in order to arrive at an accurate count of solely the Auschwitz victims, over 70 years after the fact - the actual numbers can only be estimates naturally.


    The Soviets were the most evil mass murderers in World War 2 who invaded Poland when the Germans did, and took over Eastern Europe without a slap on the wrist. The Soviet Union earned the nickname "army of rapists" when they caused the biggest single mass rape epidemic in history.

    Contrary to anti-Soviet propaganda during the Cold War, while the Soviet Union certainly did commit atrocities against minority populations at a smaller scale, it likely did not engage in directed genocide against a large number of its own civilian population. It is my understanding that the Black Book of Communism's numbers, which are often cited by anti-Soviet scholars, are not based on proper historical fact finding - although I wouldn't go so far as some scholars did and call them fabrication, as some portions of it do ring somewhat true to me personally.

    Certainly, somebody with no connection to European history and only a vague understanding of the human misery involved in the World War started by Nazi Germany, and the enormous atrocities and crimes against humanity the Nazis committed, could to jump to quick moral condemnation based on whatever revisionist literature they could find. "The Soviet Union was worse than the Nazis" is certainly a popular talking point among American conservatives with a limited understanding of history, for example, and such talk also frequently brings out people of a certain political dispensation who have waited their whole lives to not be the "bad guys" of history any more.
     
  18. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    At Antifa rallies where groups of people identify as "Antifa" or members of Antifa, Communism is sometimes promoted and hammer and sickle Soviet flags are waved. A hammer and a sickle isn't intrinsically bad but a swastika originally was a Hindu sign for well being. I see people wearing Soviet shirts where I live. The Soviet Union had a much higher kill count than Nazi Germany and the worst rape epidemic in human history and it got no coverage in my public school. Neither did Russia make reparations or pay for their crimes or I don't even know if there was ever an apology after the Soviet Union fell.

    Also , many Antifa adherents do identify as Communist.
     
  19. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Wikipedia says that the numbers of the Nanjing massacre could have been 40,000

    But yes, could have been 300,000

    We simply don't know.

    Nanjing Massacre - Wikipedia
     
  20. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    I've read the atrocities of the Soviet Union and I have read the atrocities people had to endure at Auschwitz. At Gulags priests were having to attend black masses and eat feces for holy communion and nuns who consecrated their virginity to Jesus were raped until they blasphemed , then shot in the head before they could repent to try and destroy their souls.

    Priests in Communist Russia and Spanish civil war sometimes had their hands cut off so they couldn't celebrate mass and people were dragged into the streets naked in the middle of winter and water poured over them until they froze.

    Children hearing Bible or Catechism had their ear drums punctured with pencils so they would never hear another catechism lesson and people kept awake from torture and sleep deprivation that lasted so long they were permanently mentally ill and people tortured to the point they were in wheel chairs for the rest of their lives.

    People were also killed by vicious dogs, electrocuted, bludgeoned, and the greatest known rape epidemic I know of took place in east Berlin.

    Now, I know I wasn't there, so I can't prove it. But I've seen documentaries where the people give their testimony. I've also read books. If I had to choose which concentration camp I'd rather be in , I know without hesitation it wouldn't be a Communist gulag. But I hate Nazism so certainly don't want to make light of it either.

    I have studied Communist atrocities even in my life time and it's terrible. They are a real threat. Right wing hate groups seem to be a rather small threat in comparison.

    For instance, how many countries say black people can't eat at various resturants or stay at hotels. In China that is seen and encouraged by the government.

    How many right wing countries are like North Korea where you can't even own a Bible?
     
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