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Jail or execution for a priest?

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/05/priest-says-was-told-to-says-prayers-for-abusing-boys.html

Priest says he was told to say prayers for abusing boys.

Evidently he was just told to pray for boys he'd molested.
Really?
It's disgusting when a person in a position of trust violates that office in such a horrific
manner.
I know of no punishment to fit that kind of crime that is severe enough.
Skim the story and post your thoughts if you would please.

As much as I'm tempted to say 'execution', I'll go for 'jail' (you should consider getting a poll added in) since I don't believe the state should have the authority to murder people when it has laws forbidding citizens from doing such.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
He's 95. I don't really see what the point of jail or the death penalty would be in this case. He should be in psychiatric treatment, but he might even die before his first appointment. He also appears remorseful over it.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The priest seems to be suffering over it. Rather than punishing this one priest, I'd rather see the UN step in and tell the Vatican it will cease harboring child molesters and go in and round up the ones hiding there to make them face the consequences of their actions.

People would riot like crazy seeing troops smash in the doors and rappel through windows......
 

roger1440

I do stuff
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/05/priest-says-was-told-to-says-prayers-for-abusing-boys.html

Priest says he was told to say prayers for abusing boys.

Evidently he was just told to pray for boys he'd molested.
Really?
It's disgusting when a person in a position of trust violates that office in such a horrific
manner.
I know of no punishment to fit that kind of crime that is severe enough.
Skim the story and post your thoughts if you would please.
Who shall we trust? I have read many times over the decades "We were just following orders". I can have so much fun with this thread.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/05/priest-says-was-told-to-says-prayers-for-abusing-boys.html

Priest says he was told to say prayers for abusing boys.

Evidently he was just told to pray for boys he'd molested.
Really?
It's disgusting when a person in a position of trust violates that office in such a horrific
manner.
I know of no punishment to fit that kind of crime that is severe enough.
Skim the story and post your thoughts if you would please.

This is my reply:


I would not punish him if he already legally received the punishments and consequences of his actions.

I also commend him for praying for the boys he molested to forgive him. In the Catholic Church, after confession, we (when I did) do something to make up for the sins we had commit. We ask god for forgiveness. He talked with the priests-said his confession. I think at 95 he is pretty mature to admit his faults even how many boys he molested.

The video above shows a movie, Priest (British movie-very good) who has homosexual attractions. He sinned and fell in affection for a male he met at a club. At the same time, he met this girl that was being sexually abused by her father. She shared her confession and they talked and formed a relationship (confesee/pertinent).

Then, after the third interaction with his friend, both were caught by the police and everything was made publicized. The priest had a decision as whether to go to serve his role as a priest or leave the Church as his other friend and ex-priest advised him to do.

He came in front of the Church, looked at them dead in the eye, and asked them for their forgiveness.

People spat at him. People walked out. People told him he committed an abomination to god. People cursed at him.

What bothered me about this movie was a couple of things:

1/ People walked out of the Church. If someone else's sin makes you walk out of the Church (walk from receiving Jesus), than that shows a lot of what priority that person has in their faith.

2/ People forgot that the priest asked god for forgiveness for their sins as well. He forgave them. Yet, they didn't him.

So, homosexual attraction/action (in this case, it was a sin) is no different than the abuse of boys in case of context.

If a Christian of any denomination cannot forgive his brother and

-take communion from him-

how are they acting as a servant of god, washing a poor man's feet, and dying for sinners in actions if they can't at least pray for those they sinned against and ask god for their forgiveness as well?

I had to comment but I always hated this topic. I can handle the homosexuality. It makes sense. However, the priest abuse topic just let's me see where people in general stand in their faith. What would Christ do?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I am one to strongly condemn his past actions but I am also one for forgiveness and mercy. He's 95 and the statute of limitations has run out, I would forget the criminal prosecution. I might feel differently if he was unrepentant.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
People would riot like crazy seeing troops smash in the doors and rappel through windows......
Oh well. No one should be able to claim some "holy story" and harbor criminals. They don't need to bomb the place, but they shouldn't be taking in those who are accused of crimes, especially when the crimes appear to be epidemic throughout the entirety of the Roman Catholic Church over a period of at least several decades.
I would not punish him if he already legally received the punishments and consequences of his actions.
The problem is that so many of them haven't. They are discovered and they run to Vatican where they are essentially granted asylum.
I also commend him for praying for the boys he molested to forgive him.
That's pretty lame to assault someone and then later pray they forgive you. He committed a serious breach of trust, and their forgiveness shouldn't even be hoped for. Forgiveness is a major part of Jesus' teachings, but he was the trespasser, not the one being trespassed upon.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The problem is that so many of them haven't. They are discovered and they run to Vatican where they are essentially granted asylum.
I agree with your views. I do think, though, Americans try to place their morals on other people's morals. I wonder what the Vatican laws are in regards to specific crimes. I know the Catholic Church does not promote molesting boys. I find there is a constant connection with priest and the Church. Regardless of the people, it's not part of Church doctrine. I do think he would have some consequence to his actions. (Building bad karma). Just like anyone else who sins regardless of the sin.
That's pretty lame to assault someone and then later pray they forgive you. He committed a serious breach of trust, and their forgiveness shouldn't even be hoped for. Forgiveness is a major part of Jesus' teachings, but he was the trespasser, not the one being trespassed upon.
That's why I posted the video. That's exactly what that priest did. He was betraying his congregations trust. He asked god to forgive them but then sinning himself, they don't do the same. Instead of flying with his passion, he decided to keep his devotion, faith, and service to Christ. Whether or not people trusted him has really nothing to do with his asking them for forgiveness. That takes a lot out of a person to do that.

So, if I sinned and hit my mother. Then, after sixty five years, I already prayed continuously for god's forgiveness, prayed to Jesus, and kept my devotion. Then, I had to do the last thing that is my penitence, ask my mother to forgive me, how is that wrong?

Something isn't clicking in my brain. The priest did something wrong. He admitted to it. Some of the boys confirmed it. He prayed that he forgive them. Unless they had a hard time accepting forgiveness, why is asking forgiveness in and of itself wrong.

Take Jesus Christ. Christians sin all the time. To me, that's like hitting Christ in the face for every time a Christian sins. Instead of asking Christ for forgiveness for what I did, I just turn around and wait for him, the victim, to come to me and ask me for forgiveness.

Forgiveness doesn't have reservations. It's about both parties. Especially when one is a priest, his confession is not only to god but to the people he sinned against. That's why I like Catholicism. It puts a lot of emphasis on forgiveness not just to god and the priest but to everyone by actions. Whether we disobey that action is for a Christian's god to say, but that doesn't matter.

I don't like what the priest did. However, if he holds his pride and not ask forgiveness from his transgresses, basically, he is still in sin. I guess some people like to live in guilt. Not this 95 year old priest.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/05/priest-says-was-told-to-says-prayers-for-abusing-boys.html

Priest says he was told to say prayers for abusing boys.

Evidently he was just told to pray for boys he'd molested.
Really?
It's disgusting when a person in a position of trust violates that office in such a horrific
manner.
I know of no punishment to fit that kind of crime that is severe enough.
Skim the story and post your thoughts if you would please.
Guam's under US law, right? For any priest where the charges would stick, charge them all under RICO.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I am one to strongly condemn his past actions but I am also one for forgiveness and mercy. He's 95 and the statute of limitations has run out, I would forget the criminal prosecution. I might feel differently if he was unrepentant.
I don't think the fact that he escaped justice for decades mitigates his crimes. If there's a legal way to do it, he should die in jail.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
As much as I'm tempted to say 'execution', I'll go for 'jail' (you should consider getting a poll added in) since I don't believe the state should have the authority to murder people when it has laws forbidding citizens from doing such.
Doesn't the state also have laws against removing money from people's possession against their will yet still levies fines?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Doesn't the state also have laws against removing money from people's possession against their will yet still levies fines?

Yes, but improper fines can be argued against and recovered. State-sanctioned murder is somewhat more... final. You can't un-execute someone.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I hate the crimes committed against the vulnerable. Of course.

But there is a whole additional crime being committed as well. As long as the RCC continues to protect the criminals and their enablers, the large majority of decent and self sacrificing priests will stay under the cloud of moral ugliness created by other people.
Tom
I question how large that majority is... or even if it really is a majority. When you look at the Ryan Report, for instance, it gives a pretty scathing indictment throughout the entire Church.

When there's one pedophile priest in a parish, in most cases, the other priests will have at least strong suspicions of what's going on. The ones who chose not to tell the police - and most choose not to tell - are complicit, too.

As a back-of-the-envelope calculation, I'd say there are, on average half a dozen to a dozen complicit priests or bishops for every priest who abused kids directly.

This is an issue that touched every single diocese and most parishes. The scale of the abuse is staggering... and the scale of the support and silence in the face of abuse is even more staggering by an order of magnitude.
 
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