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Jai Swaminarayan!

[youtube]Mya05ZW5bFo[/youtube]
YouTube - Swaminarayan Dhun ( Peaceful )

Okay, so I don't know much about this denomination of Vaishnavism. I only know a few things:

*Swaminarayan temples are like Disneylands; one can not even take pictures of the inside, I have heard.
*They only preach to Gujaratis mainly
*Swaminarayan is seen as God Himself
*Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva are one and the same (which differs from most, if not all other Vaishnava sects that uphold the supremacy of Vishnu-tattva)
*The guru is also seen as an avatar of God
*They wear tilak (only men), tulasi neckbeads and are vegetarians

Being that I don't have much time for reading since I am trying to read Srila Prabhupada's "Srimad-Bhagavatam" translation and commentary, I wondered if anyone else has knowledge about them as well.

Dandavats!
 
some time back i saw a TV serial ....

named "SWAMI NARAYAN" and it was good but yet i dont know the story as i watched it just sometimes ....

He is considered as an incarnation of God Narayana (vishnu) , as Chaitnaya Mahaprabhu i feel !!

and
most of Hindus consider that both Shiva and Vishnu are one!!
in Ramayana Rama(vishnu) tells that Shiva is his Lord and at same time Shiva says Rama(vishnu) is my Lord.

Vaishnava and Shaiva are just sects who believe one of them the Supreme..
Not all Hindus Follow sects,not most of those i know..
 

bp789

Member
[youtube]Mya05ZW5bFo[/youtube]
YouTube - Swaminarayan Dhun ( Peaceful )

Okay, so I don't know much about this denomination of Vaishnavism. I only know a few things:

*Swaminarayan temples are like Disneylands; one can not even take pictures of the inside, I have heard.
*They only preach to Gujaratis mainly
*Swaminarayan is seen as God Himself
*Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva are one and the same (which differs from most, if not all other Vaishnava sects that uphold the supremacy of Vishnu-tattva)
*The guru is also seen as an avatar of God
*They wear tilak (only men), tulasi neckbeads and are vegetarians

Being that I don't have much time for reading since I am trying to read Srila Prabhupada's "Srimad-Bhagavatam" translation and commentary, I wondered if anyone else has knowledge about them as well.

Dandavats!

My family is Swaminarayan Hindu so I can help with this :).

*In my temple, people are allowed to take pictures. I think the rule is only for BAPS Swaminarayan temples. In case you don't know there are different Swaminarayan sects. Most known being the Original and BAPS (I'm Original).
*Most people are Gujaratis because that's where most of the preaching occurred. Non-Gujaratis are allowed though, Swaminarayan himself was from Uttar Pradesh.
*Yeah Swaminarayan is also seen as God, but there are some Puranas/Smritis that predict his appearance. I don't have them with me yet, but they're lurking around the internet somewhere.
*As far as I know, my temple believes that Narayana is supreme.
*If you mean Pramukh Swami, he's the BAPS Swami, so I don't know how they view him. The original has acharyas one for the North and one for the South. We don't considered the acharyas as God, but we're supposed to treat them as if they were God.
*yep... although most people only wear tilak during the temple (women only wear chandlo).
 
My family is Swaminarayan Hindu so I can help with this :).

*Most people are Gujaratis because that's where most of the preaching occurred. Non-Gujaratis are allowed though, Swaminarayan himself was from Uttar Pradesh.
*yep... although most people only wear tilak during the temple (women only wear chandlo).

Thank you for answering! I really appreciate it!

Would you be able to worship in a BAPS temple no problem as an Original Swaminarayan temple?

Are there converts who are non-Gujaratis or non-Indians to Swaminarayan Vaishnavism? I mean, because of preaching I am a Gaudiya Vaishnava today, lol.

And why can women not wear urdhva-paundra? Actually, Vaishnavis wearing tilak have only been in the Gaudiya sect, as far as I know. No other Vaishnava denomination has women wearing tilak, and I still wonder why not.

Maybe it is BAPS that say that both Shiva and Vishnu are supreme... the Wikipedia page is lying to me, lol. Because to make the claim that Lord Shiva is the same as Lord Narayana Himself is quite outside the Vaishnava norm, lol.

How does a Swaminarayani practice his or her faith? What is the goal?

Do you follow Swaminarayanam yourself? :D

I may be moving in a few months into an area where there is no Gaudiya Vaishnava (ISKCON or SCS Math) temple or large sangha at all, but a Swaminarayan temple (probably BAPS) is there anyways. I thought that I would and should rather go to a Vaishnava temple than the local Hindu temple, especially when they have so many deities of different gods! :)
 

bp789

Member
Sorry, if I rant on about a lot of stuff lol.

Thank you for answering! I really appreciate it!

Would you be able to worship in a BAPS temple no problem as an Original Swaminarayan temple?

Well there's sort of a sectarian conflict between the Original and BAPS sects. The Original sect has the Acharyapad. During Swaminarayan's time, he established two Gadis or seats which would help maintain the Swaminarayan temples. The Gadi in Ahmedabad is the Nar Narayan Dev Gadi which maintains the temples in the Northern part of India (and random places in the West lol) while the Gadi in Vadtal or Laxmi Narayan Dev Gadi maintains those in the Southern part (and random places in the West too).

The first Acharyas were Swaminarayan's nephews, so they are blood related to Swaminarayan. The problem is that the Acharyas were chosen by Swaminarayan himself so all other sects are considered false or breakaways. The Swaminarayan temples are also gender segregated, men on one side, women on the other. The job of the Acharya is to initiate the men and give them diksha. The Acharya's wife (Gadiwalla) initiates the women and gives them diksha. The position is hereditary as in the Acharya has to be from the family. Gadiwalla is the wife of the Acharya.

The BAPS sect broke away in 1907 because of some philosophical differences and some issues involving Swaminarayan and the Acharyas. I don't if this is true or not but I think they believe that Krishna is considered a deva while Swaminarayan is the only one that can give moksha (I could be wrong though). BAPS is the more well known of the Swaminarayan sects.

Anyway, to answer the question, generally the Indians tend to gossip about those that go to BAPS or Original (although intersect marriage can occur in India), but as far as I know no one would say anything if you went to both, but it's not really considered favorable.


Are there converts who are non-Gujaratis or non-Indians to Swaminarayan Vaishnavism? I mean, because of preaching I am a Gaudiya Vaishnava today, lol.

Well nowadays Swaminarayan Hindus don't really preach like ISKCON. But yeah there are non-Gujaratis that follow Swaminarayan. There are a few non-Indians, but I haven't really met any. There was a white guy who came to our temple, although he was married to an Indian woman. I don't know if he was a Swaminarayan Hindu or if he just visited out of respect for his wife.

And why can women not wear urdhva-paundra? Actually, Vaishnavis wearing tilak have only been in the Gaudiya sect, as far as I know. No other Vaishnava denomination has women wearing tilak, and I still wonder why not.

This I don't know.

Maybe it is BAPS that say that both Shiva and Vishnu are supreme... the Wikipedia page is lying to me, lol. Because to make the claim that Lord Shiva is the same as Lord Narayana Himself is quite outside the Vaishnava norm, lol.

Well, actually BAPS also believes that Narayana is supreme lol.

How does a Swaminarayani practice his or her faith? What is the goal?

Mainly through bhakti (devotion) I guess. Same thing other Hindus practice their faith, prayer, japa mala, meditation, bhajans, etc. The goal is to attain moksha (or Akshardham).

Do you follow Swaminarayanam yourself? :D

Simply put yes :p. I'm not really that religious since I'm pretty busy with school. I am 16 by the way, so I don't do a lot of stuff lol, just minor things.

I may be moving in a few months into an area where there is no Gaudiya Vaishnava (ISKCON or SCS Math) temple or large sangha at all, but a Swaminarayan temple (probably BAPS) is there anyways. I thought that I would and should rather go to a Vaishnava temple than the local Hindu temple, especially when they have so many deities of different gods! :)

Well, the Swaminarayan temple I go to also pictures of other deities, but they are sort of put to the side lol. The pictures of Swaminarayan, Krishna, are larger. Well see how it goes at the BAPS temple :).
 

sats90210

New Member
I have been to a sitsang, and have some questions..
1. Why do man and women sit separatly?
2. Why does everyone sit down when its aarti?
 
the local swaminarayan temple is great. They're
very welcoming to all and ive noticed a few western people praying there. They have a shiva lingam on one side of the temple on the other side is a mufti of maa Durga and in the middle is a large mufti of Swaminaryan with Lord Rama behind him. On the ceiling is a large mural of Buddha holding hands with Krishna who is holding hands with Jesus and other people. I love the temple and give them my tulsi plants when they are grown,
 
My family is Swaminarayan Hindu so I can help with this :).

*In my temple, people are allowed to take pictures. I think the rule is only for BAPS Swaminarayan temples. In case you don't know there are different Swaminarayan sects. Most known being the Original and BAPS (I'm Original).
*Most people are Gujaratis because that's where most of the preaching occurred. Non-Gujaratis are allowed though, Swaminarayan himself was from Uttar Pradesh.
*Yeah Swaminarayan is also seen as God, but there are some Puranas/Smritis that predict his appearance. I don't have them with me yet, but they're lurking around the internet somewhere.
*As far as I know, my temple believes that Narayana is supreme.
*If you mean Pramukh Swami, he's the BAPS Swami, so I don't know how they view him. The original has acharyas one for the North and one for the South. We don't considered the acharyas as God, but we're supposed to treat them as if they were God.
*yep... although most people only wear tilak during the temple (women only wear chandlo).

It will be greatful if i can know :
what is difference between BAPS and original?
which puranas/smritis depict his appearance as GOD?
 
I'm no longer a Swaminarayan and imo they have extremely weak theology. Some of their scripture contradicts their central beliefs, but that is for another day.

They are not like Disneylands... They are fantastic complexes and they are doing a huge service to our civilisation by building ornate Mandirs that will stand for hundreds of years all over the world. The value of this work will only appreciate in time.

Sahajanand Swami settled in Gujarat. The discourses are mainly in Gujarati too. Unfortunately its a very Gujarati-centric sampradaya but the beliefs and practices are not, at all. I have met many, many non-Gujarati's in Swaminarayan Mandirs and not much has held them back.

Yes he is. He is considered Parabrahman and the source of all other avatars etc.

All other gods are considered demi-gods in the face of Lord Swaminarayan.

Not necessarily. But Swaminarayan BAPS lead Guru's have been near spotless and in my opinion one of the best examples of Gurus and Sadhus.

Yes, a Tilak Chandlo on the head, biceps and chest if I remember correctly from morning Puja. Most are vegetarians and even more do not drink. There is an extra control of no garlic and onions.

Swaminarayan is a nice faith for those looking for a place to belong. It's a friendly community that genuinely focuses on the good things in life. The religious education children get at BAPS Mandirs is also fantastic and is what brought about my interest in my faith when I was young. But I can't take the theology seriously.

You can disagree with BAPS on the grounds of false theology or even corruption with trustees, but there isn't much else to pin on them.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
For a Hindu believing in Dashavataras, Swaminarayan is blasphemy. For an advaitist like me, everything in the universe is Brahman, so there is nothing special about Sahajananda or any other person.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@Aupmanyav, could you explain why? Thanks.
I have already given two reason. I would quote a sentence from Tattiritya Samhita about the number of Adityas (Gods/Suns). It said "Ashtou tu vyavasita, iti" (There are eight (it is settled because it is so written in the earlier scriptures, and there is no debate about it) that is the end to it)'. It is something like the immaculate conception of Mary and the resurrection of Christ. If a Christian doubts it, then he is no more a Christian. Dashavatara also is similar. That is what is mentioned in the scriptures that there have been nine and the tenth would appear after about 427,000 years. No Hindu can change that and remain a Hindu. Therefore Sahajananda is not an avatara.

As for Sahajanand being 'Paramatma Purushottam Parabrahman', I am an advaitist. For me all things are Brahman. Even Osama bin Laden or Caliph Ibrahim are none other than Brahman, I too am nothing other than Brahman. So, it cannot be that only Sahajananda is Brahman.

The idea stands refuted whether in Dvaita or in Advaita. Swaminarayan is blasphemy for a Hindu.

And according to Buddhism also, too much veneration and belief on a teacher/Guru is not correct. Quoting Kalama Sutta, "nor upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya), nor upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)."
 
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Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have already given two reason. I would quote a sentence from Tattiritya Samhita about the number of Adityas (Gods/Suns). It said "Ashtou tu vyavasita, iti" (There are eight (it is settled because it is so written in the earlier scriptures, and there is no debate about it) that is the end to it)'. It is something like the immaculate conception of Mary and the resurrection of Christ. If a Christian doubts it, then he is no more a Christian. Dashavatara also is similar. That is what is mentioned in the scriptures that there have been nine and the tenth would appear after about 427,000 years. No Hindu can change that and remain a Hindu. Therefore Sahajananda is not an avatara.
While I understand what you are saying, I don't exactly agree. Keep in mind that there are many types of avataras. Swaminarayana may not be a vibhava incarnation of Vishnu, but that doesn't mean that he can't be called a shaktyavesa incarnation of Vishnu. I mean, no one knows for sure, but I feel that this is the only way for at least me to reconcile first-hand accounts of devotees of Chaitanya and Swaminarayana saying that they were God and the fact that the Shastras do not explicitly mention them.

As for Sahajanand being 'Paramatma Purushottam Parabrahman', I am an advaitist. For me all things are Brahman. Even Osama bin Laden or Caliph Ibrahim are none other than Brahman, I too am nothing other than Brahman. So, it cannot be that only Sahajananda is Brahman.

In which case, if all are the auspicious Brahman who is the giver of moksha, worshiping Osama and Vishnu would yield the same result? Don't you see the disconnect. If you want to say that "all is Brahman" in the Parmarthika sense, there should be no names mentioned (not even pronouns) or else you enter the realm on vyavaharika. Osama, Caliph, and you don't exist in Parmathika.

The idea stands refuted whether in Dvaita or in Advaita. Swaminarayan is blasphemy for a Hindu.
I agree. But for Advaita, I would say that the idea that "all is Brahman" doesn't refute the idea that Swaminarayana is God, but mainly the traditional idea of calling a normal human as an incarnation of Vishnu/Krishna/Narayana is blasphemy.

Regards
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Swaminarayana may not be a vibhava incarnation of Vishnu, but that doesn't mean that he can't be called a shaktyavesa incarnation of Vishnu.
"All saktyavesa-avataras are jiva-tattvas, including those who are considered to be incarnations. When a jiva-tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara."
The Hare Krsnas - Incarnations of the Lord - Shaktyavesa-avataras

In that case Sahajananda should not be claimed as ParaBrahman. He was a jiva-tattva. It is blasphemy to do that.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Did Brahman demand worship? When one is itself 'It', what does one worship?
No, but if you want Moksha, it's the only way possible. Why did Shankara praise Vishnu as the giver of Moksha and write poems about him if he could have just have meditated on "Tvat tvam Asi" and chanted "Aham Brahmasmi" a couple of times? Are you honestly going to tell me that Bhakti in Advaita is not manditaory
"All saktyavesa-avataras are jiva-tattvas, including those who are considered to be incarnations. When a jiva-tattva becomes specifically empowered by the Lord, he is called saktyavesa avatara."
The Hare Krsnas - Incarnations of the Lord - Shaktyavesa-avataras

In that case Sahajananda should not be claimed as ParaBrahman. He was a jiva-tattva. It is blasphemy to do that.
Yeah, I think it is more cleared up now. To call him an shaktyavesa incarnation isn't blasphemy, but ParaBrahman is too much I think.

Regards
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Are you honestly going to tell me that Bhakti in Advaita is not manditaory?

Yeah, I think it is more cleared up now. To call him an shaktyavesa incarnation isn't blasphemy, but ParaBrahman is too much I think.
Very few things are mandatory in Hinduism. Personally, for me, Bhakti is not mandatory, understanding is. The second point is what makes Swaminarayan blasphemy. Of course, if they want a break from Hinduism, I do not mind that. It is their right. But there should not be a masquerade.
 

mgd500

New Member
Jay Swaminarayan.

I searched BAPS on religious forums and all I got were bad things about BAPS. I understand that there are some misconceptions but please, why don't we all just respect each other. Why can't we just live peacefully? Please respect everyone's opinions and try to use the forum for good. Thank You.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You mean Christianity should have lived with David Koresh. Swaminarayan is a cult. There are no misconceptions.
 
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