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It's been said that man has to be very naive

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
"A supreme being" is such a strange and vague term that I can't really fault anyone for not resonating with it.

All of which still doesn't prove it's non-existence regardless of any human's inability to resonate with it. Just because man doesn't understand something doesn't rule it out. I'm of the strong opinion there are countless things in this universe man knows nothing of. Our planet earth is but a grain of sand floating in the infinite ocean of space that's the universe.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think we know anything about anything. Everything is pretty much a guess.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
I think most people believe that there is other lifeforms in the universe, but whether it have an intelligent matching our capabilities is another story.

One of the issues is that the Universe is big and old. So we don't really have any clue how long intelligent lifeforms exists, as they would most likely face a lot of the same issues as we have.

So looking at ourselves, we have already been very close to going extinct once, we could at pretty much any time be wiped out by something from space. We have managed to start an "extinction" of animals and plants on our own planet, pretty much in what you could call in a blink of an eye in cosmic time scale.

We have no effective defense against threats from space, we have no workable solution to the environmental issues we are facing. We have manage to create a global system, which is pretty much causing us to be stuck in a deadlock, which makes changes very difficult. We have fought wars from pretty much the dawn of man over resources, and despite facing a lot of issues, we continue to do so, which have just gotten worse in the scale of which we do this. And this is basically just in the last 1000 years. We still have no ways to actually leave and spread to other planets in an effective way, even if we were able to travel at the speed of light, the distance in space is so huge that it is very difficult to do so.

So putting it into perspective, looking at how we have manage to treat Earth in the last 1000 years and the Universe being roughly 14 billions years old, it would basically mean that even if modern humans manage to survive 50000 years, before going extinct, our existences in the Universe would be so short, that it could be considered a miracle if any other intelligent lifeforms should be living within a "reasonable" distance from us and be able to discover and even reach us in time, before we go extinct. The mere chance of them existing at the same time as us would be close to zero and most likely also possible to be considered a miracle.

In the end it completely depends on how easy it is for intelligent life to developer and survive and looking at ourselves, it seems to indicate that the chances for that is very low.


Definitely not, since we know that the Universe is expanding and things are moving further and further apart, which means that eventually we or anyone else won't even be able to see any stars in the night sky. And eventually the sun will consume Earth and the rest of the known solar system.


Agree this is what is important and only matters to lifeforms, the Universe does not seem to really favor life. As pretty much everything out there would instantly kill us and makes it extremely difficult to go anywhere. Despite humans ability to adapt to new environments, we have to develop extreme means of travel, but also being able to find suitable planets which can support us or terraform them to fit our needs.

Then you run into a new issue, which is gravity. For instance a person born on Mars, is most likely unable to travel to Earth and do well here due to the difference in gravity, as their bones might not be capable of that. So the amount of issues from spreading into space, even to the closest planet, is not something that is easily done and we have very limited data about how exactly this would turn out.

So at least in my opinion, if we want to survive, we have to learn to take care of Earth and each other first. Realize that humans are one species which fight is not among ourselves, but against the Universe :D

Regardless of what happens to planet earth and the entire universe in the future, mother nature's clock will continue to tick forever. This earth may one day die to the consumption of the sun but one or more life-bearing planets may exist still elsewhere. The human soul if it exists could still go on forever anywhere in the universe. I could possibly come back someday as a Klingon on planet Zork. I do believe that no matter can be made or destroyed and the sum total of energy in the universe is also conserved. As long as matter and energy exist, the potential for life (as we know or not know it) also exists. Life does depend upon energy.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I don't think we know anything about anything. Everything is pretty much a guess.
Whatever you used to post that is a objective evidence of what we know to be knowledge, fact, truth, whatever you call it, some of it we know to be objective fact.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Whatever you used to post that is a objective evidence of what we know to be knowledge, fact, truth, whatever you call it, some of it we know to be objective fact.
I disagree. For all I know I'm in a straight jacket in a padded cell somewhere imagining all of you.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Regardless of what happens to planet earth and the entire universe in the future, mother nature's clock will continue to tick forever. This earth may one day die to the consumption of the sun but one or more life-bearing planets may exist still elsewhere. The human soul if it exists could still go on forever anywhere in the universe. I could possibly come back someday as a Klingon on planet Zork. I do believe that no matter can be made or destroyed and the sum total of energy in the universe is also conserved. As long as matter and energy exist, the potential for life (as we know or not know it) also exists. Life does depend upon energy.
I doubt anything truly carries on forever.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Or dismissed out of hand by using phrases like, "Anything can be argued" :D
We objectively exist, and we know that are other things that objectively exist. It is a difficult position to argue (to say the least) that existence is absurd and illogical.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
We objectively exist, and we know that are other things that objectively exist. It is a difficult position to argue (to say the least) that existence is absurd and illogical.
IMO, any and every explanation for the fact of existence is absurd and illogical, and yet here we are ( unless we aren't).
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
to think there couldn't possibly be any other intelligent life in this universe.

Man also has to be quite naive to not think there is possibly a supreme being.
Probably true.

The same case of being so naive is to think there can't be any life following our own deaths or to think there couldn't have been any past life preceding our current lives.
Why? What is the evidence?

Time is endless from past to future: since there is a constant state of forever, everything becomes possible as only a matter of time.
How do you know this is true? (as opposed to just believe?)

Who knows how many lives we have already had in the past and shall have in the future.
Nobody knows either of those things, because nobody has demonstrated that we existed pre- or post this life.

Life to me is consciousness regardless of the state of the physical body; it's the very soul. As long as I am thinking, perceiving and knowing, I am ALIVE.
Consciousness seems to be a product of a functioning brain and is absent without the brain.

Death is an even greater mystery than life to the human mind.
No so much. It is the cessation of life.

What is death and life really?
Life is a number of physiological/biological processes. Death is the cessation of that activity.

There will be a number of differing opinions proffered on this question. That's fine. I tend to follow the evidence (or lack of).


To quote the character of Tom Berenger in the 1986 film, Platoon, "What do you all really know about death?"
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is a reason to think there might be an intelligence superior to us humans.
How so?
I've seen no proof ruling out the existence of any omnipotent being. The simple fact is I don't know the existence for a fact of such being one way or another.
Yet you say there's reason to believe there might be a superior intelligence?
I see no proof ruling out the existence of unicorns or little green men, but I don't claim there's any reason to believe in them without evidence. I withhold belief pending evidence.
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I've seen no proof ruling out the existence of any omnipotent being. The simple fact is I don't know the existence for a fact of such being one way or another.
Seeing nothing ruling out an omnipotent being isn't the same as believing there is a reason to believe in one, as you
All of which still doesn't prove it's non-existence regardless of any human's inability to resonate with it. Just because man doesn't understand something doesn't rule it out. I'm of the strong opinion there are countless things in this universe man knows nothing of. Our planet earth is but a grain of sand floating in the infinite ocean of space that's the universe.
Exactly -- so the reasonable position would be to withhold belief in these countless things till some actual evidence for their existence comes to light.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I've seen no proof ruling out the existence of any omnipotent being. The simple fact is I don't know the existence for a fact of such being one way or another.
Never heard of the paradox of the stone? Can an omnipotent being make a stone so heavy that it can't lift it? If it can make the stone it is impotent to lift the stone, if it can't make the stone it is impotent to make the stone.
Omnipotence is as impossible as a married bachelor.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
to think there couldn't possibly be any other intelligent life in this universe.

Man also has to be quite naive to not think there is possibly a supreme being.

The same case of being so naive is to think there can't be any life following our own deaths or to think there couldn't have been any past life preceding our current lives.

Time is endless from past to future: since there is a constant state of forever, everything becomes possible as only a matter of time.

Who knows how many lives we have already had in the past and shall have in the future.

Life to me is consciousness regardless of the state of the physical body; it's the very soul. As long as I am thinking, perceiving and knowing, I am ALIVE.

Death is an even greater mystery than life to the human mind.

What is death and life really?

To quote the character of Tom Berenger in the 1986 film, Platoon, "What do you all really know about death?"
It's Alive! It's Alive!

see my thread.....same title
 
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