Italy's far right set to win election

[Estro Felino]

How is that indoctrination? Please elaborate. When I was a kid, we used to have a guy dressed up as a bear come read stories to us. Was that indoctrination too?

I just want to know the purpose of that. There are already teachers who read them stories.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I just want to know the purpose of that. There are already teachers who read them stories.

The purpose is to have fun. For reading time to be a fun time for kids. To encourage reading.
Like the guy dressed as a bear reading stories to my class. Which reminds me, you didn't answer either of my questions. Why is that?

 

[Estro Felino]

The purpose is to have fun. For reading time to be a fun time for kids. To encourage reading.
Like the guy dressed as a bear reading stories to my class. Which reminds me, you didn't answer either of my questions. Why is that?

A bear makes sense because so many bears are protagonists of stories.
Drag queens are supposed to entertain other people, other than children.

 

[SkepticThinker]

A bear makes sense because so many bears are protagonists of stories.

Really? Which ones?

Drag queens are supposed to entertain other people, other than children.

Who says? What "other people?"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Drag queens are supposed to entertain other people, other than children.

Not sure how things are over there, but here in the UK the idea of drag acts for family or children's entertainment is fairly normal. Just look at our use of dames in pantomimes.

 

[metis]

“God. Fatherland. Family.”

I resonate with this phrase. Deeply.

And fascists and neo-fascists generally have done that so as to con unsuspecting others.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And fascists and neo-fascists generally have done that so as to con unsuspecting others.

I am finding it a common theme that those who adhere to - or just defend - fascists tend to be easily drawn in by euphemistic language. Just look at a lot of my exchange above.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am finding it a common theme that those who adhere to - or just defend - fascists tend to be easily drawn in by euphemistic language. Just look at a lot of my exchange above.

Mmm .. especially in crisis of some kind.
Mankind is inherently weak, especially where wealth is involved.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Mmm .. especially in crisis of some kind.
Mankind is inherently weak, especially where wealth is involved.

Or, in absence of crisis, they tend to manufacture a crisis. More commonly, though, they will point at a real issue or existing crisis and then attribute the cause to "x political group" or "y ethnic group". This is the most common strategy embraced by the modern fascist movement. They will point to real social ills (most often caused by social inequality and enforced through capitalism), and ascribe the cause to "immigrants" or "leftist degeneracy" or "LGBT people".

 

[Estro Felino]

I am finding it a common theme that those who adhere to - or just defend - fascists tend to be easily drawn in by euphemistic language. Just look at a lot of my exchange above.

I think that after WW2 the term fascismo, which is an Italian term, has been de-contextualized from its own Italian context and used as synonym as authoritarian, dictatorial, etc... By whom? By others.

But that creates confusion. One cannot borrow a term from a very short period of history of a country, and universalize it. That is my own personal and humble opinion, of course.

History is history. Let's move on. Let's think of the future.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I think that after WW2 the term fascismo, which is an Italian term, has been de-contextualized from its own Italian context and used as synonym as authoritarian, dictatorial, etc... By whom? By others.

But that creates confusion. One cannot borrow a term from a very short period of history of a country, and universalize it. That is my own personal and humble opinion, of course.

History is history. Let's move on. Let's think of the future.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. After the wake up call of Mussolini and Hitler, we need to remain vigilant against people who walk that same path, or talk that same talk.

So far, your position seems to be that we should ignore the policies, rhetoric and stated values of individuals, instead favouring some kind of "vibe" that is ill-defined, or making the best-case interpretation of any kind of euphemistic language.

I don't. I advocate that creating ethno-states is bad, and we should fight like hell against it. I advocate that stripping minorities of rights is bad, and we should fight like hell against it. I advocate that using fascist talking points and advancing Nazi rhetoric is bad, and we should fight like hell against it.

If you don't want to stand for anything, please go ahead and move aside for those of us who do.

 

[Kenny]

Fascinating -- back to fascism.

Oddly, Italian has no way to translate "Il Duce" (Mussolini) into the femine.

Interesting how we have changed definitions to where conservatism translates into fascism.

I read that:

Ms Meloni's right-wing alliance - which also includes Matteo Salvini's far-right League and former PM Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia - will take control of both the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies, with around 44% of the vote.

Regardless, It isn't like she has total control. (Only 24%)

I haven't really followed her but I did see the following:

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/st...^s1_c10&ref_url=https://www.weaselzippers.us/

didn't see any red flags. IMO

 

[Kenny]

I think that after WW2 the term fascismo, which is an Italian term, has been de-contextualized from its own Italian context and used as synonym as authoritarian, dictatorial, etc... By whom? By others.

But that creates confusion. One cannot borrow a term from a very short period of history of a country, and universalize it. That is my own personal and humble opinion, of course.

History is history. Let's move on. Let's think of the future.

I agree... I think people today have used the word "fascism" as a political tool to demean conservatism rather than applying it properly. (We do learn from the past but today's broad paint brush doesn't match history)

 

[Estro Felino]

Interesting how we have changed definitions to where conservatism translates into fascism.

I read that:

Ms Meloni's right-wing alliance - which also includes Matteo Salvini's far-right League and former PM Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia - will take control of both the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies, with around 44% of the vote.

Regardless, It isn't like she has total control. (Only 24%)

I haven't really followed her but I did see the following:

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1574251105940377607?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1574251105940377607|twgr^bbda6990b30b7574d28fc0a486b9ac6dfa9d2e8a|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https://www.weaselzippers.us/

didn't see any red flags. IMO

Thank you for posting that video about identity and consumer slaves. And Chesterton, above all.
Please, share it if you can.

 

[Estro Felino]

I agree... I think people today have used the word "fascism" as a political tool to demean conservatism rather than applying it properly. (We do learn from the past but today's broad paint brush doesn't match history)

In the Twitter video you posted, Meloni quotes Chesterton and says: there will be a time where you will have to fight to affirm 2 plus 2 equals 4. That time has come.
Wonderful.

 

[Sand Dancer]

View attachment 67007


I think that the three pillars of this victory, God, Fatherland and Family mean this:
That public servants need to be loyal to the Fatherland because God is watching them.

And all those Freemasons, Bankers, Financial group that the lounge-loving and carefree Left-wing has been pandering, do not serve the Fatherland.
This victory is the demonstration that all these wealthy people are powerless. The people stands.

As long as it doesn't mean, "Let's discriminate against anyone who doesn't believe in our form of god, and try to promote a theocracy." Americans are very wary of those who want this here. Europe may not have it that bad there, but I don't know.

 

[Sand Dancer]

What they do in the US. Drag queens in kindergartens and primary schools. That's indoctrination, in my humble opinion.

Drag queens...

 

[Estro Felino]

As long as it doesn't mean, "Let's discriminate against anyone who doesn't believe in our form of god, and try to promote a theocracy." Americans are very wary of those who want this here. Europe may not have it that bad there, but I don't know.

Whenever the POTUS swears the oath, he says so Help me God.
We are speaking of an oath. As a Christian, I believe he makes a promise before God, so he has to defend the Constitution and he has to be loyal to the American People.
I believe in this.
That's not theocracy because non-Christians will be protected and respected.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I still don't get how you're getting from 'party wants to promote traditional family' to 'party wants to ban all opposition.'

Promoting one type of family is making it sound like it is better and preferred. Two parent gay families have less risk of behavior issues in children than single parent families. Why not promote two-parent families instead?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Whenever the POTUS swears the oath, he says so Help me God.
We are speaking of an oath. As a Christian, I believe he makes a promise before God, so he has to defend the Constitution and he has to be loyal to the American People.
I believe in this.
That's not theocracy because non-Christians will be protected and respected.

Well, they don't have to say that anymore. I wish more people had your view of that, but sadly, in the US, it's different. Our right wing Christians are anomalies compared to those in other developed nations. Of course we are an anomaly compared to other developed nations...