Italy's far right set to win election

[muhammad_isa]

Far-right leader Giorgia Meloni has won Italy's election, according to exit polls, and is on course to become the country's first female prime minister.

A Meloni-led Italy will alarm much of Europe with Russia at war in Ukraine.
..she leads a party rooted in a post-war movement that rose out of Benito Mussolini's fascists.

I wonder what the Pope makes of it all.

 

[Rival]

They're not exactly far right, they're just standard social conservatives. I align with many of their views.

Brothers of Italy is anti-immigrant, anti-gay marriage, and pro the traditional family unit, with leader Giorgia Meloni promoting a public image herself as a “woman, mother, Christian” whose mission is to defend “God, country and family”.

Many of the party’s policies are pro-natalist and aimed at combatting Italy’s plummeting birthrate, which Meloni has described as “a true emergency”. They include increased child benefits; reducing VAT rates on nappies, baby bottles and formula; free childcare provision, and incentivising employers to hire new mothers.

Political cheat sheet: Understanding the Brothers of Italy (thelocal.it)

This is standard right-wing stuff. It's not exactly extreme.

Idk what the left expects the right to be these days, but this is not 'far right'.

 

[The Hammer]

Brothers of Italy is anti-immigrant, anti-gay marriage, and pro the traditional family unit,

IMO these are terrible policy stances. But I'm not Euro.

 

[Altfish]

They're not exactly far right, they're just standard social conservatives. I align with many of their views.

Brothers of Italy is anti-immigrant, anti-gay marriage, and pro the traditional family unit, with leader Giorgia Meloni promoting a public image herself as a “woman, mother, Christian” whose mission is to defend “God, country and family”.

Many of the party’s policies are pro-natalist and aimed at combatting Italy’s plummeting birthrate, which Meloni has described as “a true emergency”. They include increased child benefits; reducing VAT rates on nappies, baby bottles and formula; free childcare provision, and incentivising employers to hire new mothers.

Political cheat sheet: Understanding the Brothers of Italy (thelocal.it)

This is standard right-wing stuff. It's not exactly extreme.

Idk what the left expects the right to be these days, but this is not 'far right'.

In this day and age, anti-gay marriage is extreme.
But the childcare provision is good.

What worries me is all the other policies that have not been hignlighted

 

[Lyndon]

They're not exactly far right, they're just standard social conservatives. I align with many of their views.

Brothers of Italy is anti-immigrant, anti-gay marriage, and pro the traditional family unit, with leader Giorgia Meloni promoting a public image herself as a “woman, mother, Christian” whose mission is to defend “God, country and family”.

Many of the party’s policies are pro-natalist and aimed at combatting Italy’s plummeting birthrate, which Meloni has described as “a true emergency”. They include increased child benefits; reducing VAT rates on nappies, baby bottles and formula; free childcare provision, and incentivising employers to hire new mothers.

Political cheat sheet: Understanding the Brothers of Italy (thelocal.it)

This is standard right-wing stuff. It's not exactly extreme.

Idk what the left expects the right to be these days, but this is not 'far right'.

yeah but you're far right, if that puts your comments in focus

 

[Rival]

In this day and age, anti-gay marriage is extreme.
But the childcare provision is good.

What worries me is all the other policies that have not been hignlighted

Which other policies?

yeah but you're far right, if that puts your comments in focus

What do you expect the social right to be, though? What would be an acceptable right-wing to you? The right-wing is classically traditional and conservative. It's as though some folks think all the moral issues are now agreed upon, but they're not.

 

[Rival]

Brothers of Italy’s platform and policies (isidewith.com)

It gives their policies.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This is standard right-wing stuff. It's not exactly extreme.

When it comes to social policies, it seems to me that much of what passes off as standard right-wing ideology is extreme in the sense that it threatens the freedoms and sometimes the safety of certain groups.

As a litmus test, replace "anti-gay marriage" with "anti-interracial marriage" and consider whether that would be extreme. As soon as a social policy encroaches on someone else's safety or freedom, it stops being a mere matter of personal opinion.

That said, I think the Italian PM's win is simply a manifestation of the perpetually oscillating voting pendulum. In a democracy, I think it's a given that governments will alternate between the right wing and left wing, where various governments exhibit varying extents of fervor or commitment to their respective partisan ideologies.

 

[Rival]

When it comes to social policies, it seems to me that much of what passes off as standard right-wing ideology is extreme in the sense that it threatens the freedoms and sometimes the safety of certain groups.

As a litmus test, replace "anti-gay marriage" with "anti-interracial marriage" and consider whether that would be extreme. As soon as a social policy encroaches on someone else's safety or freedom, it stops being a mere matter of personal opinion.

That said, I think the Italian PM's win is simply a manifestation of the perpetually oscillating voting pendulum. In a democracy, I think it's a given that governments will alternate between the right wing and left wing, where various governments exhibit varying extents of fervor or commitment to their respective partisan ideologies.

Whatever you think of it, these are just standard right wing social views and they're not far right. I'm not sure what those on the other side would accept as right-wing social values at this point. It seems there's no allowance for social conservatism at all.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Which other policies?

I remember Margaret Thatcher.
She was the first female PM in UK..
She is responsible for a lot of the chaos to this day in the UK..

"Bankers bonuses .. multiple gas and electric companies, that are only bankers [there is only one gas pipe in my house] .. fragmented railways where the rail and trains are operated by different companies etc. etc.
What a mess !

 

[Rival]

I remember Margaret Thatcher.
She was the first female PM in UK..
She is responsible for a lot of the chaos to this day in the UK..

"Bankers bonuses .. multiple gas and electric companies, that are only bankers [there is only one gas pipe in my house] .. fragmented railways where the rail and trains are operated by different companies etc. etc.
What a mess !

Yes, but I'm not talking about the economic policies. I'm not a Thatcherite Libertarian.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Brothers of Italy’s platform and policies (isidewith.com)

It gives their policies.

I skimmed through that, but from what I read, I actually agree with some of their positions on health care, the environment, and the economy.

A few of their stances on immigration and, of course, same-sex marriage strike me as deeply harmful.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Whatever you think of it, these are just standard right wing social views and they're not far right..

I suppose you have heard of Mussolini..

 

[Debater Slayer]

Whatever you think of it, these are just standard right wing social views and they're not far right. I'm not sure what those on the other side would accept as right-wing social values at this point. It seems there's no allowance for social conservatism at all.

It depends on which issue we're talking about: when a subset of social conservatives explicitly tell specific groups that they want to take away their right to marriage, ban them from entering the country, or impose religious traditionalism on them, then of course many among those groups won't make an allowance for that as an acceptable position.

On the other hand, something like the birth rate or amount of tax-funded basic income is much more open-ended. It's not as directly threatening to personal freedoms and safety as the above examples are.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Bravo, Italy!

 

[Rival]

It depends on which issue we're talking about: when a subset of social conservatives explicitly tell specific groups that they want to take away their right to marriage, ban them from entering the country, or impose religious traditionalism on them, then of course many among those groups won't make an allowance for that as an acceptable position.

On the other hand, something like the birth rate or amount of tax-funded basic income is much more open-ended. It's not as directly threatening to personal freedoms and safety as the above examples are.

Neither marriage nor immigration are rights.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Neither marriage nor immigration are rights.

That's a whole topic by itself. Needless to say, I disagree about marriage. Immigration is more complex: I agree it's not a right, but absent any solid reasons to heavily restrict or ban it altogether, I think doing so more often than not underlines demonization of foreigners and is based more on fearmongering than actual problems.

 

[Yerda]

 

[Debater Slayer]

I prefer to look on the bright side: both Germany and France, Europe's two most influential powers, snubbed the far right in fairly recent elections. Italy is economically struggling either way and has nowhere near France's and Germany's influence on regional and international politics.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Bravo, Italy!

The Kingdom of Italy was governed by the National Fascist Party from 1922 to 1943 with Benito Mussolini as prime minister. The Italian Fascists imposed authoritarian rule and crushed political and intellectual opposition, while promoting economic modernization, traditional social values and a rapprochement with the Roman Catholic Church.
Fascist Italy (1922–1943) - Wikipedia