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It is not natural to be sexually chaste.

Discussion in 'Sexuality' started by Jonathan Bailey, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Any couple. There is such a thing as asexuality in the range of human behaviour.
     
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  2. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Why do couples, straight or otherwise, choose to live a nonsexual life?
     
  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak for my self and the relationship i am in, But for us the only reason to have sex would be if we want children, something that is not in the plan now
     
  4. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    If you have urges, why do you deny them? What is the purpose of your self-denial?
     
  5. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    Why not ask them? If you can find any, that is. I'm sure they do exist somewhere.
     
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  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    The urge is not there anymore, and the same for my fiaceè she also lives very similarly to me. we just found that we not planning to have children so no need to have sex.
     
  7. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    By that standard, are you in favour of decriminalizing pederasty? Which is what both cultures usually meant by same-sex love.

    By the way, being penetrated by another man was considered shameful and effeminate by the Romans. Which was why freeborn boys were off limits. A 'normal' sexual relationship with a freeborn boy was a capital offence. So it is true that homosexuality was accepted among the Greeks and Romans, but in ways that (at least for now) horrify most people today.
     
    #27 Musing Bassist, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  8. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    A male was not to lie with someone of equal social status but it was okay to lie with someone of lower social status, i.e., an adult slave, woman or child.
     
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  9. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I never said unhealthy repression is okay. For some people, I think chastity does come natural and they are gifted that way.
     
  10. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Might be a medical issue. I've been led to believe in all my 55 years that man without a sex drive is like trying to run a car without gas. I certainly am not one of those "proud-and-few" sexually-dead fellows.
     
  11. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    .....or just a MAN of lower occupational status, as a banker's lying with a carpenter, a Roman male citizen was not allowed to take it in the butt, but a non-citizen in ancient Rome was allowed to be the male person penetrated: slaves of course, were never Roman citizens

    I don't condone adult's lying with underage children in violation with the law. In some countries, children are legally of age for sex with adults at 15. In America, the legal age for sex is 18. That a 60-year-old would sleep with an 18- year- old might creep some people out, but if the sex is consensual, it's still lawful.
     
    #31 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  12. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    I find the term STRAIGHT offensive in reference to heterosexuality. It implies that homosexuals and bisexuals are deviant, a pejorative term. STRAIGHT at one time variously meant righteous, law-abiding, socially-conforming, free of vices and honest.
     
  13. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Then the Romans didn't have a naturalistic view of human sexuality either in that shame and effeminacy was a possible element of it. The male lions naturally screw one another of their own coalition in certain circumstances and lions certainly are not sissies. You have to remember that an anus is not a vagina: it's a gender-neutral body cavity. Then probably in the days that predate the law of the Roman Republic and the Jewish law of Leviticus would anal sex between two men have not been made shameful or carried any penalty. Given the length of the entire history of human existence, the stigma against against male homsexuality probably starts at the time of leviticus in the Bible. In the times that predate Judaism since the dawn of early man, there probably was probably little or no social stigma against same-sex intercourse. Anthropologists believe human homosexuality (and perhaps bisexuality even more so) has been in existence about as long as heterosexualty and I see no reason to doubt them. Man probably has been largely bisexual for most of the time of his existence.

    Homosexuals have probably lost many rights and dignities since the advent of the Jewish faith and/or formalized codes of law. I'm not sure if the ancient Greeks had any law or shame against man-to-man anal intercourse on the basis of citizenship or whatnot. Anti-gay shame and condemnation is a relatively modern notion. Primitive societies, hunter-gatherer societies, barbaric tribes and early transhumance and agricultural societies probably had no social stigma against homosexuality. Man has become progressively more separated from Mother Nature and the jungle along with his natural and primeval animal passions with the advent of bigger cities, formal religions, formal legal codes and modern civilizations. In many ways, modernization has made man more ignorant of nature. Man, these days, does many unnatural things and the human race largely is as phony as a three-dollar bill.

    Sexually speaking, modern man is way out of touch with his inner beast.
     
    #33 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  14. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    It seems that such is the case (medical issue), and I don't know how common it is, other than the reasonably normal lack of arousal. The following seem to touch on this:

    Hypoactive sexual desire disorder - Wikipedia
    Asexuality - Wikipedia
     
  15. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, the Romans felt no shame in their habits. And pederasty (sex with young boys) was a widely accepted one.

    Male lions will also kill the cubs of rival males after taking control of a pride. And effeminacy in the ancient and medieval sense does not mean cowardice necessarily. An effeminate is a man who too strongly exhibits traits associated with the feminine. Sexual submissiveness was one of those traits.

    And therefore....?

    Sex between two men did not carry penalty in Rome. Although no halfway decent man would allow himself to be penetrated, that was what prostitutes and slaves were for. You know, shameful people with no dignity or rights.

    You imagine.

    No doubt sodomy is as old as the human race. But so are sexual attitudes. That you don't like certain attitudes doesn't make them unnatural. I would for instance imagine that the aversion to having your adolescent son be sodomised by grown men to be quite natural and independent of Leviticus.

    Universal human rights were never a thing until very recently. Also, blaming the Jewish faith for sexual attitudes you don't like is beyond asinine. Non-Abrahamic religions also share many of moral precepts which condemn sexual immorality including homosexuality. Heck, Theravada Buddhism teaches monastic celibacy as a requirement for salvation.

    Mere claims.

    You know what's also mother nature? Dying in writhing agony from syphilis. Genital warts, HIV and death in childbirth; also all natural. So is violence, warfare and being dead by thirty.

    Just because something is 'natural' doesn't make it beneficial or moral. Nature doesn't love you, it is brutal, blind and indifferent.

    The mere urge to do something doesn't make that thing good as you know doubt would condemn someone who acts on the urge to have sex with children. (A perfectly 'natural' behaviour observed time and time again in history, including among our good friends the Romans and Greeks).

    I believe we are created immortal beings endowed reason and intellect. We have the ability to discern moral truth and an obligation to order our lives in accordance with that moral truth. The freedom you preach is nothing more than an enslavement to base passion. An enslavement to sin which not only makes one sick and miserable in this life but also in the next.
     
    #35 Musing Bassist, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  16. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that an anus is not a vagina: it's a gender-neutral body cavity.
    And therefore....?

    And therefore a man or a boy is not a FEMALE merely because his behind is penetrated. There is nothing reproductive involved there. Anal penetration is purely for pleasure in both sexes. In men, it excites the male G-spot. Both sexes have an anus. I'm so sick of the anal penetration of the male as being referred to as playing the "girl" part. That attitude is flat-out ignorance. Men have no natural reproductive cavity to penetrate anyway. Does a male doctor turn me into a woman whenever he examines my rectum with a gloved hand for prostate cancer? Both sexes also have mouths and either of those orifices can be sexually penetrated by a penis as well. Is a woman a MAN if she penetrates a man's behind with her finger?

    The stigma against same-sex relationships is due mostly to man's dim-wittedness.

    Though man has been out of the jungle for about 25,000 years now, there still is room in modern civilization for same-sex anal intercourse, same-sex oral sex, same-sex hand jobs, same sex public hand-holding, same-sex public kissing and same-sex french kissing to be widely accepted without shame, penalty or stigma in two consenting adults.

    I long for the day when two high-school boys or two high-school girls can go to a homecoming dance or senior prom holding hands, kissing or even dancing together anywhere in America or the world without being laughed at, beat up, stared at funny, killed, arrested, criticized, shamed, condemned, executed, violently assaulted or called names.
     
    #36 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  17. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, what you are sick of is irrelevant. You claim that the Romans accepted homosexuality. They didn't. Not in the way we think of homosexuality today anyway. They accepted sexual dominance be it over a woman, man or boy.

    No, but if you took examinations to derive pleasure from them then you would be considered effeminate. If fact, according to the Greeks it was effeminate to be too preoccupied by the seeking sexual pleasure. This was because according to Greek thinking a real man keeps his passions under the cool control of stoic reason. The stoic sage enjoys no pleasure outside its due order because inordinate pleasure is contrary to virtue and thus eudaimonia.
     
    #37 Musing Bassist, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  18. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Both men and women often need some sexual pleasure sometimes. It's only designed into the human body by nature. I get off the "macho trip" in my attitudes regarding sex and get back to natural basics. Semen, feces and urine can't be held in forever. A man gets off his load every so often. It's a natural call like going to the toilet. I don't know what "load" a woman "gets off".
     
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