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Featured It is man's fault, not God's fault

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Shakeel, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I expect there to be solid evidence that is far more conclusive than some book talking about flying horses and semen coming from between the ribs.
     
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  2. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Forget the book. If someone tells you what you are about to do has dire consequences, whether it be mans law or a gods law, does it not make you think twice?
     
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    If they have no evidence to support their claim, I dismiss it. And it needs to be credible. I know the sun is hot. I know it poses a risk to me. But if someone says not to go outside because the sun will burn me up, they may offer some supporting evidence for the claim but it's rubbish so I will dismiss it.
     
  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Sunburns are real. The point is if you were fixing to do something stupid or crazy and some one said your will pay for it, would you not think about it?
     
  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I know sunburns are real. I'm fair skinned so it's something I must be cautious with. But it's not burning me up, even if I forget to use sunscreen. So such a warning I would ignore.
     
  6. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Nice dodge. But the fact is being you are fair skinned you would pay for a bad sunburn even though you ignored the warning.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    No. I'm not being burned up. That's the point. The warning was to stay inside because if I go outside I'll burn up. That's not true. I put on some sun screen, regularly reapply it, and I'm find. No need to pay this warning of being burnt up any heed or mind.
    I more realistic example of when I was warned to stay out of the black part of town where I used to live. I never did heed those words. I interacted with people there, ate at some restaurants, and often stopped in at a particular gas station for a certain drink. I was never robbed, mugged, abducted, beat up, jumped, shot, stabbed, or raped despite the warnings.
     
  8. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    But you just said and I quote "But it's not burning me up, even if I forget to use sunscreen"

    Now you are saying "I put on some sun screen, regularly reapply it, and I'm fine".

    Evidently without it you would badly burn. Hence take warning.
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    When I say burned up, I mean burned up as a log is burned up in a fire. Not a sunburn.
     
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  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Seems to me what is posted ^ above^ fits the words of Ecclesiastes 8:9
    that it is MAN who has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury.

    There was No famine in Eden
    There was No pestilence in Eden
    There were No earthquakes, Tsunami tidal waves, typhoons in Eden.

    When Jesus said there would be ' GREAT earthquakes ' he was Not teaching God was the cause.
    Jesus was just forewarning us that such things would be happening as per Luke 21:11.
    Happening before there would be divine involvement into mankind's affairs.
    God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth - Revelation 11:18 B.
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Since Jesus said the good news of God's kingdom or government would be proclaimed on an international scale as a 'witness' to the nations (Matthew 24:14) then remember new people are born each day, so Jesus (who can read hearts) will be the Judge. Hearing about God's kingdom creates a division of the heart for good or bad.
    Once a person hears about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) then it is his choice to accept or reject and Jesus is the judge.
    We need to back up to 'before' Armageddon, because before Armageddon is the ' great tribulation ' as per Revelation 7:14,9. The ' great tribulation ' will be the ' cut off time '. Separated 'sheep' and 'goats' - Matthew 25:31-33
    Then, only what can be referred to as a 'hailstone message' will be left and that will be for the figurative ' goats '.
    Once the great tribulation breaks out there can be No ' climbing on the band wagon ', so to speak, at the last minute.
    There is a sobering thought found at Luke 11:23; Matthew 12:30 because the person Not with Jesus is considered against Jesus.
     
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  12. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is all just a person's own personal biased opinions about what was and what Jesus intends to do. There's nothing factual here.
     
  13. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    So then as you mentioned "new people being born each day", what would happen to newborns who are around during Armageddon and who aren't born into JW households? Would they survive Armageddon?
     
  14. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    Surat l-Ahzab, ayah 72 "Surely We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to be unfaithful to it and feared from it, and man has turned unfaithful to it; surely he is unjust, ignorant;"
     
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  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Thank you. Adam was given the choice, and accepted it. How does Adam consent on my behalf? It's not much different than God creating me, giving me freewill, punishing me for disobediance without consent. Complaining about this non-consential requirement for obediance is justified, imo.
     
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  16. Shakeel

    Shakeel Active Member

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    Thank you. There is a problem with the picture. God doesn't want to prevent all evil in this world. If He wanted to, He would. That doesn't mean God can't be loving and good at the same time. Rather, a lot of Christians have a problem in their argument that God is so good, there can be no hell — which would mean God was unjust. For someone to be good, they have to be just, even with us humans.
     
  17. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    And God couldnt make a people capable of succeeding?
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Since the parent is responsible for minor children (Flood of Noah's day; destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70 CE)
    then a parent separated as a figurative ' goat 'at the time of Matthew 25:31-33 would be responsible for a minor.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me both Job and Jesus under very-adverse conditions proved capable of succeeding.
    Adam was un-faithful in least.
    Job and Jesus were faithful under much.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Rather, lots of 'so-called Christians' ( Fake weed/tares Christians ) teach a fiery hell.
    Whereas the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
    This is why Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
    When King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in death/grave.
    Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
    So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction.
    Destruction as the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; 2 Peter 3:9.
    Biblical hell (grave) comes to a final end ( Rev. 20:13-14 )
    After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' ( that means resurrected out of biblical hell ) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell/grave.
     
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