It appears Socialist Finland may have woken up.

[Twilight Hue]

Finland's entire government resigns after breakdown of agreement on welfare state reform

....Or did they?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Did you even read the article? The problem isn't with a welfare state but rather with an aging population. Japan is also having to figure out what is basically the same issue of an large retirement age population that puts a strain on the current system set up.
It would have been nice for some more details though, because it doesn't seem like much is going to actually change given what the article does say. And clearly the president didn't step down, because it didn't indicate he did but rather the PM handed his resignation over to the president. In fact, the PM is the only one it mentions as having resigned.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This seems to be a much better article:
Finnish government announces resignation
It does state Sipila's government is resigning and will continue to act in a caretaker role, and it also points out Sipila is center-right and Socialist Democrats are gaining momentum.
And Reuters, which further specifies it is Sipila's cabinet that has resigned.
Finland's cabinet quits over failure to deliver healthcare reform | Reuters
So, no, the entire government didn't resign and it appears your "are they waking up?" is without base as it is a Right-winged coalition that has resigned and the Left that is gaining.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This seems to be a much better article:
Finnish government announces resignation
It does clearly state Sipila's government is resigning and will continue to act in a caretaker role, and it also points out Sipila is center-right and Socialist Democrats are gaining momentum.

It also stated further down the welfare state has been putting a strain on the working class in Finland.

I did read the article btw. ;O)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It also stated further down the welfare state has been putting a strain on the working class in Finland.

I did read the article btw. ;O)

Specifically because of an aging population. As we are consistently living longer, it's something more and more states are finding they are having to address. It doesn't matter what political models and philosophies they follow. Japan, for example, is starting to offer better retirement packages the longer someone delays retirement. While that may sound good on one hand, on the other hand they are finding it is leaving fewer jobs for those of a normal working age. We're probably going to see numerous experiments on this issue over the next several years, and by then we might have an idea of what will work and what won't.

 

[LuisDantas]

It also stated further down the welfare state has been putting a strain on the working class in Finland.

I did read the article btw. ;O)

You seem to be working under premises that most people simply do not use.

A welfare state will of course create a demand for money. That is the whole idea.

Most anything creates money demands.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most anything creates money demands.

Sad that's so true that even making money creates a demand for money.

 

[exchemist]

Finland's entire government resigns after breakdown of agreement on welfare state reform

....Or did they?

"Socialist" Finland, eh? When I worked in Houston TX, I knew people who thought that putting in a tram line was communism. These Americans.......

 

[metis]

Finland has a "mixed economy", which is a mixture of socialistic and capitalistic approaches, although they're more socialistic than here in the States. Therefore, the OP is really quite misleading because any country with an aging population is going to have what are called "legacy costs".

 

[Jumi]

First off, we're not socialist. Don't believe the lies of anyone who says we are.

Finland's entire government resigns after breakdown of agreement on welfare state reform

https://www.foxnews.com/world/finla...reakdown-of-agreement-on-welfare-state-reform
The government that resigned was Center-Right wing that wanted to change the working system we have and privatize healthcare. They resigned after scandals as for profit healthcare companies started accidentally killing off elderly in their quest for profit.

....Or did they?

Yes, we woke up, but no, no one here wants anything as expensive and inefficient as the US has for healthcare.

 

[Jumi]

It also stated further down the welfare state has been putting a strain on the working class in Finland.

What kind of strain? The immigration crisis and the EU are what's put any real strains recently.

If you're an average worker you can afford to go on holiday for two weeks in Thailand every year and maybe go skiing for a week and spend Christmastime with your relatives or friends. No ones dying on the street and cime rates are low.

 

[Jumi]

Finland has a "mixed economy", which is a mixture of socialistic and capitalistic approaches, although they're more socialistic than here in the States. Therefore, the OP is really quite misleading because any country with an aging population is going to have what are called "legacy costs".

It depends what is socialism... it's clear that we are capitalist and lots of our collective risk sharing actually comes from Evangelical Lutheranism and the so-called Protestant Working Ethic. It's just that lots of people have become less religious while keeping the working model.

Well we do have in Finland 35 out of 200 seats in parliament for a party that's member of the Party of European socialists... they're an opposition party. We also have a Left wing party made up of something like remnants of old communist parties, but that's even smaller, it will be hard for them to become a government party.

 

[Revoltingest]

It depends what is socialism... it's clear that we are capitalist and lots of our collective risk sharing actually comes from Evangelical Lutheranism and the so-called Protestant Working Ethic. It's just that lots of people have become less religious while keeping the working model.

I wish you good luck in your pursuit of using the standard definition
of "socialism" (ie, people owning the means of production).
Lefties call any system they like with free health care "socialism".
Righties call any system they hate with free health care "socialism".
Tis either deceptive praise or criticism, eh.

 

[Father Heathen]

It would have been nice for some more details though, because it doesn't seem like much is going to actually change given what the article does say. And clearly the president didn't step down, because it didn't indicate he did but rather the PM handed his resignation over to the president. In fact, the PM is the only one it mentions as having resigned.

It's Fox News. Of course you're not going to get much in the way of actual details or accuracy.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Socialist" Finland, eh? When I worked in Houston TX, I knew people who thought that putting in a tram line was communism. These Americans.......

And these same Americans have no qualms with using public roads, public schools, the postal service, etc. A lot of Americans' knee-jerk, hyperbolic attitude toward socialism is simply remnants of the red scare.

 

[Father Heathen]

Finland has a "mixed economy", which is a mixture of socialistic and capitalistic approaches, although they're more socialistic than here in the States. Therefore, the OP is really quite misleading because any country with an aging population is going to have what are called "legacy costs".

It seems that a lot of Americans don't/can't/refuse to understand that it's a scale. In their minds it's simply socialism/communism vs. capitalism (never mind services like public schools, public roads, public transportation, postal service, social security, etc.)

 

[metis]

It depends what is socialism... it's clear that we are capitalist and lots of our collective risk sharing actually comes from Evangelical Lutheranism and the so-called Protestant Working Ethic. It's just that lots of people have become less religious while keeping the working model.

Well we do have in Finland 35 out of 200 seats in parliament for a party that's member of the Party of European socialists... they're an opposition party. We also have a Left wing party made up of something like remnants of old communist parties, but that's even smaller, it will be hard for them to become a government party.

There are various forms of socialism, but the general rule of thumb is that various "safety nets" fit into all of them. What some people do, however, is to think that political/economic systems like Soviet-style Marxism is what "socialism" automatically is referring to.

Therefore, since Finland has many social programs, it is not entirely capitalistic, thus what we call those "mixed economies". Countries that have unbridled capitalism have basically no safety net.
BTW, say "Hi!" to my cousins in Sweden.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems that a lot of Americans don't/can't/refuse to understand that it's a scale. In their minds it's simply socialism/communism vs. capitalism (never mind services like public schools, public roads, public transportation, postal service, social security, etc.)

I don't necessarily disagree, yet lines get moved a lot. Worse when it enters that gray area. Like Eminent domain liberally employed for socialist purposes.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't necessarily disagree, yet lines get moved a lot. Worse when it enters that gray area. Like Eminent domain liberally employed for socialist purposes.

In my opinion, some things shouldn't be privatized as to where profits are the top if not only priority. People talk about not trusting the government but how are private mega corporations any more trustworthy?

 

[Jumi]

There are various forms of socialism, but the general rule of thumb is that various "safety nets" fit into all of them. What some people do, however, is to think that political/economic systems like Soviet-style Marxism is what "socialism" automatically is referring to.

People in Europe would mostly find the comparison insulting. In Finland(and Sweden) lots of our shared risk bearing also comes not from Marx, but from Evangelical Lutheran religious ideals. Thus even our conservatives have traditionally cared for people, of course new selfish "conservatives" have appeared who seem to copy the US and thus the failure and fall of the government here.

Therefore, since Finland has many social programs, it is not entirely capitalistic, thus what we call those "mixed economies". Countries that have unbridled capitalism have basically no safety net.

Yes, the US welfare and healthcare system is also very foreign to us. For us, our taxes are paying for clean tap water, police, fire department, healthcare. Thus we have much lower crime rates, close to 0 homeless and so on. We pay for services and working society. What Soviet Union paid for was a political machine that had the cares of the people only as an afterthought, same as the US from our perspective.

BTW, say "Hi!" to my cousins in Sweden.

I visited Sweden quite recently, people were as great as expected.