Israeli Cabinet passes loyalty bill, Arabs angry

[Bismillah]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference, from a non-Jewish standpoint?

Because of the efforts Israel makes to try and characterize itself as a secular country? Otherwise it would not be possible to deny that whatever actions it takes are religiously motivated.

Besides, why should I as a Muslim, pledge loyalty to Judaism? Would you do the same for a Sharia based country? When a 1/5 of the population is Muslim and were Muslim before the creation of Israel and represent a huge mass of people exiled from their land who were Muslim, do you think it is correct to characterize Israel as a Jewish state in the religious sense?

 

[Rakhel]

You asked if the pledge would be that of a cultural or religious pledge. where do you draw the line between culture and religion?

 

[England my lionheart]

"I swear that I will be a loyal citizen to the state of Israel, as a Jewish and democratic state, and will uphold its laws."

BBC News - Israeli cabinet backs controversial Jewish loyalty oath


so whats the problem exactly? the Jewish bit? i think anyone who feels that strongly about it wouldn't want to be an Israeli citizen anyway would they?

Even if the Jewish part was ommited it would still upset the Arabs as they aren't to keen on Democracy .

 

[Bismillah]

You asked if the pledge would be that of a cultural or religious pledge. where do you draw the line between culture and religion?

You are asking if I believe Israel to be secular? I am not sure, though I see Israel leaning towards religion a lot more than other secular countries. The only one for comparison would be that of America since that is the only Western country I am familiar with.

 

[Bismillah]

Even if the Jewish part was ommited it would still upset the Arabs as they aren't to keen on Democracy .

You do love generalizations don't you?

 

[England my lionheart]

You do love generalizations don't you?

Well are they?

 

[Bismillah]

Well are they?

You already know my answer I am guessing.

 

[Sunstone]

so whats the problem exactly? the Jewish bit? i think anyone who feels that strongly about it wouldn't want to be an Israeli citizen anyway would they?

Suppose you marry an Arab-Israeli and decide to settle in Israel. Why wouldn't you want to become an Israeli citizen?

Again, what sort of message seems to be sent to Arab-Israelis who are already second class citizens of Israel by this oath? Does it seem to you that this oath is treating them as first class citizens?

 

[Sufi]

Democracy exposed by brother Malcolm X

Democracy is Hypocrisy

[youtube]2KSIeQoE9jM[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KSIeQoE9jM

 

[Yona]

I still don't see what the big deal and I think comparisons to Nazi Germany are not only absurd but also extremely offensive. The point is this specific minority are not losing any rights here or any thing like that. All this bill says is "pledge alliegance to the state of Israel and follow it's rules and don't actively support or be apart of organizations that seek the destruction of Israel." That's all it's saying, the reasons for this bill are obvious.

 

[Yona]

Even if the Jewish part was ommited it would still upset the Arabs as they aren't to keen on Democracy .

Did you really just type this?

 

[dust1n]

That's what it is first and foremost, a Jewish state. Why? Let me answer that by asking this have you ever studied Jewish history, Zionism or the foundation of and the history of the modern state of Israel?

To a small extent, but I fail to see how that answers my question.

The conditions for this bill should tell you there is a big difference between you're comparison and this bill. This minority, the Arabs-Muslims come from the exact same community in which those whom actively seek the destruction of the state of Israel come from. There is both organizations and nations whom seek the destruction of Israel and do not recognize it's existance at ALL. It's within this context that this bill was written. I don't see the problem with this bill.

Um.. the Arab-Israeli come from the exact same community on which Israel exists. That is why they are Israeli.

And I'm aware of the situation, but I fail to see why that requires Muslim Arab-Israeli's to pledge allegiance to a Jewish state, when they aren't themselves Jewish.

 

[dust1n]

I still don't see what the big deal and I think comparisons to Nazi Germany are not only absurd but also extremely offensive. The point is this specific minority are not losing any rights here or any thing like that. All this bill says is "pledge alliegance to the state of Israel and follow it's rules and don't actively support or be apart of organizations that seek the destruction of Israel." That's all it's saying, the reasons for this bill are obvious.

See how easy that was without targeting a specific race, religion, or cultural background?

 

[Sufi]

I still don't see what the big deal and I think comparisons to Nazi Germany are not only absurd but also extremely offensive. The point is this specific minority are not losing any rights here or any thing like that. All this bill says is "pledge alliegance to the state of Israel and follow it's rules and don't actively support or be apart of organizations that seek the destruction of Israel." That's all it's saying, the reasons for this bill are obvious.

Bombing beaches where people were enjoying their holidays (2006) delaying pregnant women (some died on the way because of the delays or lost their child) killing innocent children nuking house blocks with high tech US weaponry kicking people off their land/farms sounds pretty Nazistic all done by the so called democratic state of Israel.

 

[Etritonakin]

I don't see it as any different than the American Pledge of Allegiance.

In a perfect world, such pledges would not be necessary.

If people dwell in America and are not allied with the flag or the republic for which it stands, they are definitelty not viewed in the same way as those who do. This allegiance means being allied with America before anything which would threaten it.

The fact that Israel wants its citizens to recognize that the purpose of its existence is to provide a homeland for Jews (which should be an obvious fact to all -and should be understandable to all given their history) does not make the oath racist. Israel allows other races to dwell in Israel in peace -though certainly some Jewish Israeli citizens are racist, and would treat others unfairly -just as any other place in the world.

How would we feel if the Arabs, for example, wanted their citizens to take an oath recognizing the fact that the U.A.E. was primarily for the good of Arabs against any who would threaten them? Should they take the "Arab" out of the U.A.E.? Should they allow acts and policies which might seek to displace Arabs altogether? Should we take offense that they might want us to recognize their right to exist and their intentions?

Racism is how we view and treat others of other races -it is not politely asking that they respect our race and our perfectly reasonable intentions.

Racism does exist everywhere -even in Israel -fueled by hatred, war, ignorance -and an unwillingness to forgive on everyone's part.

Peace to all -and soon!

 

[Rakhel]

They never proved Israel was involved in the beach bombing, Jews were illegally removed form their homes in 29 by Arabs(remember Hebron?), pregnant women and children are dying on both sides and both sides are using phosphorous weapons.
stop playing the victim because you are just as much the villain.

 

[Sufi]

They never proved Israel was involved in the beach bombing, Jews were illegally removed form their homes in 29 by Arabs(remember Hebron?), pregnant women and children are dying on both sides and both sides are using phosphorous weapons.
stop playing the victim because you are just as much the villain.

[youtube]WHh3FpaLIcs[/youtube]
YouTube - Israeli Soldiers Admit War Crimes

[youtube]uORRgI9t8eE[/youtube]
YouTube - Israeli Soldiers Admit to War Crimes in Gaza War.

 

[Sufi]

[youtube]MKgph9PV3SA[/youtube]
YouTube - Israeli army 'using white phosphorus' - 12 Jan 08

 

[LuisDantas]

You asked if the pledge would be that of a cultural or religious pledge. where do you draw the line between culture and religion?

That is indeed a good question, and one that unfortunately greatly complicates any attempts at attaining peace between Israel and its neighbors.

On the one hand, the Jewish people have one of the most strong cultural identities in existence, and it is no secret that they also greatly value descendency. In that sense, I can see how this pledge isn't much different from any other national pledge. Parallels with the proposals of making English the official language of some American states come to mind, in fact.

On the other hand, the Jewish people are also, to a very large extent, defined by their link to Judaism. When push comes to shove most of them will chose culture over religion if need be - but it is supposedly very difficult to make the choice.

 

[Etritonakin]

...just found this on answers.yahoo.com...

Q: How long does it take to get UAE(emirati) citizenship if you have a GCC passport?

Say someone from the GCC countries, has done business in UAE, has lands in UAE.. obtain a UAE passport? How long does he need to stay in the country?


A: Never.

In the UAE everyone who is not a UAE National is a temporary resident of the country. It is not possible to become a citizen of the UAE.

Also being a GCC National you will not be able to obtain the UAE citizenship unless you are a woman getting marriend to an Emirati. This does not work for men marrying an Emirati girl.

Take care
Source(s):

UAE

I find this to be a perfectly reasonable policy -in and of itself.

(I'm not trying to connect the UAE with anything happening in Israel -just saying it is not a new thing -and if people are treated well, it should not matter)