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Featured Israel, the Servant of God

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Redemptionsong, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You seem to conflate the works of Abraham or Noah, with keeping or not keeping the law. Transgression of the Law is sin. One must first repent, turn away from sin, and then produce good fruit, which are works of faith, such as throwing a mountain into the sea, with the faith of a mustard seed. Two separate entities.

    Habbakuk 2:4 is about the righteous will live by his faith/faithfulness. It is about Habbakuk crying for help because he has to look on iniquity, destruction and violence, therefore the "law" is ignored and justice is never upheld, and the wicked surround the righteous, and justice comes out perverted. Somewhat like in today's lawless "Christian" dominated society, where the "law" is now ignored (Isaiah 5:18-20). The righteous believe that "the God of my salvation (YHWH)" will save them at the "appointed time", and Habbakuk's vision from God, lays out the downfall of the wicked. The narrative presented was at the time when the "Chaldeans"/Persians (southern Persia), the head of the beast of the coming day (Revelation 17), were about to chastise the "proud one" who would be the king of Babylon. The scenario happens time and time again, for Judah would continue to break God's laws, and look to idols, such as gods (Habakkuk 2:18-20) made in gold, silver, and wood, such as your Trinity (multiple god) crosses, which cannot speak or hear.
    The "appropriate time", with respect to the "end of the age", according to Joel 2:31 -Joel 3-2, would be called the day of the LORD, when there will be "survivors" from Mount Zion and Jerusalem. That time, when all the nations will be judged (Daniel 2:45) is at the door (Matthew 24). Until that time, apparently people will call evil good, and good evil (Isaiah 5:20), and substitute darkness for light.
    Keeping the law is line with the faith that God gave it to Israel to follow. On the other hand, "every person" is under the rule to keep the Commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:10). On the other hand, good fruit is required as well as turning from lawlessness/wickedness, or one is cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3), whether they think they have been grafted in or not. People will be judged by their deeds (Revelation 20:12), not according to whatever they think or feel.
     
  2. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Paul, whom you choose to reject as a false apostle, gives us a very coherent and clear teaching about the distinction between those 'under the law' and those following the 'gospel of the grace of God'.

    The covenant with Moses, a covenant of law, is not completed as an act of faith. It is completed by doing all the things commanded by God through the prophet Moses. God's laws were written down, and then followed. It fell as a duty upon every individual Israelite to do ALL that was commanded in the law. Unintentional sin, committed in ignorance, could be covered by sacrifice, but intentional sin led to a 'soul' being 'cut off from among the people' [see Numbers 15:22-31]. There was no room for mercy if you committed intentional sin.

    Then we have the person of Christ, who stands at the crossroads between the covenant of law and the covenant of grace. In him we have the fulfilment of the law. But his testament does not come into effect until after he is dead, and resurrected. Only then is the promise made to Abraham made effectual. The new testament, or covenant, is a covenant of the Spirit of Christ. His righteousness becomes the righteousness of the believer, through faith. A changed heart, following after the Spirit in truth, becomes the means to a fruitful existence. This fruitfulness, or work of faith, is nothing less than the 'righteousness of God' manifested as a work.
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your "gospel of grace, was the gospel of the false prophet Paul. The gospel of Yeshua was the gospel of the kingdom, which was to be preached to the world before the end. As for the covenant of God with the Israelites, given through Moses, it was written by the hand of God, and placed in the ark of the covenant, and kept in the holy of holies. It was after the Israelites made their golden calf, that God placed upon them his laws of ordinances and statutes, which at the commencement of the kingdom of heaven on earth, they will keep those "ordinances" & "statutes" (Ezekiel 37:24) with "David" as their king. As per the "end of the age", and Yeshua's teaching on the kingdom of heaven, it will be when those who "commit lawlessness" will be thrown into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42), which would include the "stumbling blocks", such as Peter's successors. (Matthew 16:19). As for how to get forgiveness from sin, Yeshua showed the path by way of confession of sin, repentance, baptism, and production of good fruit. James showed forgiveness of sin through confession and the prayers of a righteous man, such as in the case with Elijah (James 5:15-17), which happened years before the birth of Yeshua. As for the "fulfillment" of the "Law and the prophets" (Matthew 5:17-18), it has not been fulfilled, and the kingdom on earth hasn't been established, and not one stroke of the Law shall pass away until all is accomplished, The king is not ruling from Jerusalem per Zechariah 14:16-18), and the nations do not worship the king every feast of booths.

    The "New covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-33 is with respect to the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel", and when it is done, no man will have to teach their neighbor to know the Lord, for they shall all know him, which is not the case in todays, or yesterdays world. At that time, when they have "My law within them", I will forgive their iniquity, and the "city"/Jerusalem, shall not be overthrown any more forever (Jeremiah 31:40). It is only a recent event that Jerusalem is mostly in the hands of Judah, with the disputed Temple Mount still under supervision of Islamist. The house of Israel remains scattered among the nations (Ezekiel 36:19). You seem to understand the false gospel of Paul, but seem to be a little shallow in your understanding of the Word, which is to say, when the floods come, your house will be unanchored (Matthew 7:27), and fall/swept away.
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe people derive all kinds of strange ideas from Prophecy but when the real thing comes the fulfillment is clear and that is in the Gospels.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I would agree. A general resurrection of the dead does not occur until Jesus returns as is stated in Thessalonians.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe His message was nailed to the cross by the Romans. It said "King of the Jews." The Jewish leaders didn't like that one bit.
     
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Psalms 16:10 "neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to see the pit"

    Where exactly was Yeshua supposedly buried? Are you saying he supposedly had his eyes closed and not able to see the walls of the pit he was buried in? Psalms 16:3 is about "the saints who are in the earth". When the "son of man" returns, the "saints", those without the mark of the beast (Revelation 20:4), will be raised from the dead and reign with Christ. Ezekiel 37:11-12, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel.....the Lord God, 'behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel' ".
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The dead, those with the mark of the beast, remain buried for another1000 years, and after 1000 years are judged according to their deeds (Revelation 20:10). It is the beheaded saints and those without the mark of the beast, who are raised from the dead (Revelation 20:4)
     
  9. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Psalm 16:10 refers to Jesus, the Holy One of God.

    It may also have an application for David, son of Jesse, but not until the resurrection of the dead at the coming of Christ in glory.

    The reason that Jesus never saw the 'pit' was because his soul was restored by God. His soul was raised in an incorruptible body, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If 1 Corinthians 15 was true, how come Thomas saw nail wounds and a hole in the side, if he was raised "incorruptible"? How come Paul and his listeners are all dead, if Paul said "we shall not all sleep"/die? Did Paul actually witness a resurrected Christ, or is he like Luke, a maker of hear say tales? As for the "son of man", he will come "immediately after" the "great tribulation", when the tares/lawless will be harvested "first", and thrown into the furnace of fire. The the "elect" will be gathered (Matthew 13:30).
     
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