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Israel, the Servant of God

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Yes......... The God of Israel is their God, was always their God from the beginning.

So..... Yes. Or did you think that Jesus was ever there for Gentiles?
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ. My own opinion is that 'Israel' is both a head, Christ, and a body, his followers. The 'body' can be both Jew and Gentile.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ. My own opinion is that 'Israel' is both a head, Christ, and a body, his followers. The 'body' can be both Jew and Gentile.

Israel, "My holy name" (Ezekiel 36:21) was passed to Jacob, then to Joseph, and then to Ephraim. Depending on circumstances, it has many subjects. The "house of Israel", generally refers to the lost sheep of Israel, and refers to the lost 10 northern tribes, which are linked with Ephraim. Without understanding the term "Israel", one is up a creek without a paddle.

The sanctuary of God, is referred to as the mountain of God, such as Mount Zion, the location of the citadel of David. David is merely to be the king (Ezekiel 37:24), but the "sanctuary" will be the combined people of Judah and Ephraim, forever (Ezekiel 37:28). The "strangers"/Gentiles, will be their "servants" (Isaiah 14:1-3). The "foreigners"/"strangers", can only worship on Mount Zion if they keep the Commandments and My Sabbath, which is to say, the 7th day of the week. (Isaiah 56:6)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ.

Oh really! It certainly doesn't refer to 'Christ'....how do you spin that out of it?

Israel means 'Israelite people'. It means that in your gospels for goodness sake.

Matthew {2:6} And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Oh really! It certainly doesn't refer to 'Christ'....how do you spin that out of it?

Israel means 'Israelite people'. It means that in your gospels for goodness sake.

Matthew {2:6} And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
So, the king of lsrael is the head of the body, lsrael. Why are you beheading poor old lsrael?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ. My own opinion is that 'Israel' is both a head, Christ, and a body, his followers. The 'body' can be both Jew and Gentile.

I don't know, but some of your "opinions" seem a little sketchy. It seems the misappropriation of the term "Israel" by many of the "Christians", has kind of knocked you off tract. You might want to return to the rock, the source, the Law and the prophets, and see what they have to say. The traditions of men are apparently frowned upon by God. (Isaiah 29:13)
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ. My own opinion is that 'Israel' is both a head, Christ, and a body, his followers. The 'body' can be both Jew and Gentile.
It refers to the People of Israel, aka the Jews. I realize that some Christians believe in Replacement Theology, which is deeply insulting to Jews. But honestly, you have to lie to yourself to think that the verses of teh Tanakh that refer to Israel are somehow really referring to a church that didn't even exist yet.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I don't know, but some of your "opinions" seem a little sketchy. It seems the misappropriation of the term "Israel" by many of the "Christians", has kind of knocked you off tract. You might want to return to the rock, the source, the Law and the prophets, and see what they have to say. The traditions of men are apparently frowned upon by God. (Isaiah 29:13)

I'm happy to argue my case from the Hebrew scriptures.

For a start, I don't think it's wrong to apply the name 'Israel' to the one who is the head over Israel. Was Jacob not the father of the twelve tribes? Was his name not changed to lsrael? The conclusion must be that lsrael is an individual, and also a people.

What is spoken about in temporal terms in the Tanakh, takes on a spiritual meaning in Christ, which is why all who claim Christ as their head are termed 'Israel'.

And who is the 'rock', if not God and His Christ?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The question here is whether or not 'Israel' refers to the Israelites, or to Christ. My own opinion is that 'Israel' is both a head, Christ, and a body, his followers. The 'body' can be both Jew and Gentile.

The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.

So Israel could represent the head of the body of all humanity. The teachings that issue forth are the Heart and the Law from Zion the lifeblood.

The body of humanity is very sick, the elixer has been made, the remedy has been offered, the body of humanity yet to accept the jab.

Regards Tony
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
I'm happy to argue my case from the Hebrew scriptures.

For a start, I don't think it's wrong to apply the name 'Israel' to the one who is the head over Israel. Was Jacob not the father of the twelve tribes? Was his name not changed to lsrael? The conclusion must be that lsrael is an individual, and also a people.

What is spoken about in temporal terms in the Tanakh, takes on a spiritual meaning in Christ, which is why all who claim Christ as their head are termed 'Israel'.

And who is the 'rock', if not God and His Christ?

You can "claim" that pigs fly, but unless you throw them out of a very high airplane, their airborne flight will be short and sweet. The physical meaning of "Christ", the anointed, is one who is anointed, which would be the kings, priest, judges, and prophets of Israel. The physical king of Israel, in the flesh, at the end of the age, will be David, and the combined physical tribes of Judah and Ephraim (Israel), will be the physical tabernacle of the Spirit of "the LORD who sanctifies Israel. (Ezekiel 37:24-28). Israel needed a new heart and spirit, and to be washed to be sanctified, Yeshua, not so much (Ezekiel 36:25-27). As an aside, you argued your case from the viewpoint of the doctrines of men, specifically from the doctrines coming out of the false prophet Paul. The "rock"/"tested stone" of Isaiah 28:16, would be found in the ark of the covenant, originally named "Words"/Commandments, and is dependent on "justice" & "righteousness". Yeshua's "physical" being represented the spiritual Words of God, the Law and the prophets. (Matthew 5:17-18) The Law and the prophets, your Tanakh, have not been fulfilled. And Yeshua's kingdom, at this time, is not of the earth. Those that rule in the millennium, would include those without the mark of the beast (Revelation 2:4).
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.

So Israel could represent the head of the body of all humanity. The teachings that issue forth are the Heart and the Law from Zion the lifeblood.

The body of humanity is very sick, the elixer has been made, the remedy has been offered, the body of humanity yet to accept the jab.

Regards Tony
I think there's a lot of truth in what you say here.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
But Christians are NOT the "head over Israel."
No, you're right. Those in Christ form the body. Christ is the head.

Another way of looking at it is to say that the groom comes for his betrothed. The woman is made from the rib, the body, of Adam, and becomes 'one flesh' in marriage. The head is reunited with its own body!
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
You can "claim" that pigs fly, but unless you throw them out of a very high airplane, their airborne flight will be short and sweet. The physical meaning of "Christ", the anointed, is one who is anointed, which would be the kings, priest, judges, and prophets of Israel. The physical king of Israel, in the flesh, at the end of the age, will be David, and the combined physical tribes of Judah and Ephraim (Israel), will be the physical tabernacle of the Spirit of "the LORD who sanctifies Israel. (Ezekiel 37:24-28). Israel needed a new heart and spirit, and to be washed to be sanctified, Yeshua, not so much (Ezekiel 36:25-27). As an aside, you argued your case from the viewpoint of the doctrines of men, specifically from the doctrines coming out of the false prophet Paul. The "rock"/"tested stone" of Isaiah 28:16, would be found in the ark of the covenant, originally named "Words"/Commandments, and is dependent on "justice" & "righteousness". Yeshua's "physical" being represented the spiritual Words of God, the Law and the prophets. (Matthew 5:17-18) The Law and the prophets, your Tanakh, have not been fulfilled. And Yeshua's kingdom, at this time, is not of the earth. Those that rule in the millennium, would include those without the mark of the beast (Revelation 2:4).
When do you think the reign of Jesus ('David my servant') begins? Has Jesus already been given dominion over heaven and earth?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.

So Israel could represent the head of the body of all humanity. The teachings that issue forth are the Heart and the Law from Zion the lifeblood.

The body of humanity is very sick, the elixer has been made, the remedy has been offered, the body of humanity yet to accept the jab.

Regards Tony

That wouldn't be a good representation.
Ezekiel 36:21
But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations/Gentiles where they went"
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
When do you think the reign of Jesus ('David my servant') begins? Has Jesus already been given dominion over heaven and earth?

The ruler of the world is the beast with 7 heads, whose authority comes from the dragon (Revelation 13:4). We are currently in the era of the head of the beast (Revelation 17:11).
  • John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
The reign of the "son of man" doesn't begin until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-30)
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
No, you're right. Those in Christ form the body. Christ is the head.

Another way of looking at it is to say that the groom comes for his betrothed. The woman is made from the rib, the body, of Adam, and becomes 'one flesh' in marriage. The head is reunited with its own body!

"Christ" will reign with those without the mark of the beast for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4). As for the groom, he came to the marriage, and found many missing, for they had ran out of oil and had to leave to try and find oil. The becoming one flesh has to do with a man and his wife. Adam was not "married" by man, he was joined with Eve by God. David will be king, who will co rule with the elect (Revelation 20:4), but the oil the wives lacked, was the Spirit of God. The sanctuary, home of the Spirit of the "LORD"/God, will be the combined Judah and Ephraim (Israel) (Ezekiel 37:28) at the "end of the age". A husband can only be one with a wife, if they both possess the Spirit of God. If both are one with God, the Father, they can think and feel as one. Their relationship is interdependent. One does not lord over the other. They will equally die for each other.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The ruler of the world is the beast with 7 heads, whose authority comes from the dragon (Revelation 13:4). We are currently in the era of the head of the beast (Revelation 17:11).
  • John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
The reign of the "son of man" doesn't begin until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-30)
How, then, do you interpret Daniel's night vision, Daniel 7:13,14? Is the 'one like the Son of man' given dominion by His Father immediately after ascension to heaven? Or, do you think dominion is deferred until his return to earth?
 
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