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Israel ...the land of darkness unto the nations.

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
That's not an Arab writing that but an Israeli. I agree with him. The Israel I supported in my youth is dead. What's left gives preference to a Russian oligarch who contributes to a memorial over the suffering of children. In a time when nations are standing up to be counted, Israel is showing how far she's fallen from the path of virtue.

Israel’s Rejection of Ukrainian Refugees Shows That It’s the Darkness Unto the Nations


The country whose ethos is based on a scathing indictment of the world that kept silent, looked away and locked its gates is doing the exact same thing in this moment of truth.
...
To look after your own poor is fine, but to look after them alone is monstrous. Concern for your own people is understandable, but concern for them alone is perverted.
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Is there really a difference between a Ukrainian child fleeing for his or life, someone who doesn’t have a Jewish great-grandmother, and a Ukrainian child who does? What’s the difference? The difference is called racism. This rummaging in blood, at a time of war yet, is called selection.
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In this hour of darkness that has descended on the world, Israel is emerging as the land of darkness unto the nations. Nobody should have expected it to be a light unto the nations. Why on earth light, why? But at least we could have expected it to be like everybody else.
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Israel has a commitment to refugees not only because of its past – it’s also obligated to the Ukrainian refugees mainly because of the large community of Ukrainian workers in Israel. A country that forbids the devoted caretakers of its elderly and cleaners of its homes to invite in their relatives to save their lives is clearly an immoral country. The welter of shabby excuses about Ukraine’s conduct during the Holocaust only makes the picture worse, punishing the grandchildren’s grandchildren for the sins of their fathers and mothers.
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It’s something buried deep in the national DNA, amid years of brainwashing about the need to be strong, only strong, amid tall tales of the Chosen People and the only victims in history, allowed to do anything. And this image is accompanied by a cultivation of xenophobia in dimensions illegal in any other country. All this is now coming to light in a particularly ugly display.

Maybe it’s the original sin of a country that was established on the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of refugees, maybe it’s the Zionist religion that advocates Jewish supremacy in every facet. Whatever the reasons, none of this justifies requiring a deposit of a single shekel from a war refugee at Ben-Gurion Airport.

And darkness was upon the face of the deep.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Israel's violence against Palestinian civilians and building of illegal settlements makes its government reminiscent of Putin and his variety of tyrannical murderers. It may not have the power or the reason to enact a war of the same scale as he has, but repeatedly flouting international law and human rights considerations has been a fixture of its actions for decades.

I applaud the author of the article for highlighting Israel's shortcomings with such honesty. That is refreshing to see when too often there is a tide of apologetics and religious fanaticism that seeks to justify Israel's more abusive practices.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
That's not an Arab writing that but an Israeli. I agree with him. The Israel I supported in my youth is dead. What's left gives preference to a Russian oligarch who contributes to a memorial over the suffering of children. In a time when nations are standing up to be counted, Israel is showing how far she's fallen from the path of virtue.
You have set a very high bar for that country. What you're asking is for Israel to waive a lot of guarantees that the persons incoming are indeed Ukrainian refugees. A compassionate approach is perhaps to lay down all arms and pray for peace. Knowing you I believe you would do that and that you believe in doing that. I cannot expect Israel to do that when I am safe here in the US. I don't think Israel is in the same situation as most European nations nor that is as safe. I can understand being afraid, and fear is a weakness but not necessarily the end of Israel.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Israel's violence against Palestinian civilians and building of illegal settlements makes its government reminiscent of Putin and his variety of tyrannical murderers. It may not have the power or the reason to enact a war of the same scale as he has, but repeatedly flouting international law and human rights considerations has been a fixture of its actions for decades.

I applaud the author of the article for highlighting Israel's shortcomings with such honesty. That is refreshing to see when too often there is a tide of apologetics and religious fanaticism that seeks to justify Israel's more abusive practices.

I've said/written many times and I repeat once again with hope but no optimism, peace will truly come to the tortured region when Israeli Jew says wholeheartedly Shalom Aleichem to an Arab Muslim and the Muslim replies "Wa-Alaikum-Salaam" and visa versa. Only by recognizing that the common humanity of everyone is the most important thing will the horror that exists there finally end. May that day come soon.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
You have set a very high bar for that country. What you're asking is for Israel to waive a lot of guarantees that the persons incoming are indeed Ukrainian refugees. A compassionate approach is perhaps to lay down all arms and pray for peace. Knowing you I believe you would do that and that you believe in doing that. I cannot expect Israel to do that when I am safe here in the US. I don't think Israel is in the same situation as most European nations nor that is as safe. I can understand being afraid, and fear is a weakness but not necessarily the end of Israel.

Go back to the OP. It's an Israeli that wrote what I quoted. Who is going to lay down arms. The aggressor Russia who is escalating the bombing and destruction? The Ukrainians who are fighting for their country? That's a bizarre thing to ask for.

And what you wrote reminds me of the bigotry of "Muslims are towel-headed traitors" so we can't just let them in because they'll blow things up when most terrorism is right-wing terrorism.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
You have set a very high bar for that country. What you're asking is for Israel to waive a lot of guarantees that the persons incoming are indeed Ukrainian refugees. A compassionate approach is perhaps to lay down all arms and pray for peace. Knowing you I believe you would do that and that you believe in doing that. I cannot expect Israel to do that when I am safe here in the US. I don't think Israel is in the same situation as most European nations nor that is as safe. I can understand being afraid, and fear is a weakness but not necessarily the end of Israel.

Problem is, Israel, the Zionists, will NOT lay down their arms for the Palestinians. They want abuse to continue and brag about it. They won't even let them build roads for children to get to school and you think they will harbor or agree to any refugees...no way, they need it for their own. Very selfish and arrogant.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
I don't think Israel is in the same situation as most European nations nor that is as safe.
I was going to object to the rest of your post, but I think you are sadly right. Being in the grip of nationalist xenophobes for decades at this point, Israel is likely very unsafe for refugees, and likely on purpose.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Problem is, Israel, the Zionists, will NOT lay down their arms for the Palestinians. They want abuse to continue and brag about it. They won't even let them build roads for children to get to school and you think they will harbor or agree to any refugees...no way, they need it for their own. Very selfish and arrogant.
Big talk. Have you got any refugees in your house?
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
@sun rise, two thumbs-up for ignoring that Israel has assisted many refugees from many countries in the past. Did the country necessarily give them citizenship? No. So? There are other ways to assist. Israel was not created as a country for non-Jews.

Anecdotally I will say that I was sent twice during my military service to check over the bodies of dead Syrians who had been evacuated over to Israel to receive medical treatment but didn't make it. When was the last time you helped Syrian refugees?

Serious props to all of you.
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
@sun rise, two thumbs-up for ignoring that Israel has assisted many refugees from many countries in the past.
Whom has Israel assisted in the past 20 years?

When was the last time you helped Syrian refugees?
It is my job to teach my country's language to migrants and refugees, which I would consider a form of assistance.
Your mileage may vary. Obviously I'm not going to rescue them physically from a warzone, what with me living a continent away and not really being of any military use to begin with. I suppose that last part renders me inherently worthless in your eyes, which is fine by me, this is not a competition after all.
Serious props to all of you.
It's really part of my job, think nothing of it!
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
@sun rise, two thumbs-up for ignoring that Israel has assisted many refugees from many countries in the past. Did the country necessarily give them citizenship? No. So? There are other ways to assist. Israel was not created as a country for non-Jews.

Anecdotally I will say that I was sent twice during my military service to check over the bodies of dead Syrians who had been evacuated over to Israel to receive medical treatment but didn't make it. When was the last time you helped Syrian refugees?

Serious props to all of you.

So why did this Israeli paint such a dark picture? Note that in that article there was nothing about citizenship. Instead there was mention of family joining a Ukrainian already working in Israel. Why not address what the article talked about. Why not discuss how Israel wants to protect an oligarch because he gave money to a memorial instead of going all in to oppose Putin's war.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
So why did this Israeli paint such a dark picture? Note that in that article there was nothing about citizenship. Instead there was mention of family joining a Ukrainian already working in Israel. Why not address what the article talked about. Why not discuss how Israel wants to protect an oligarch because he gave money to a memorial instead of going all in to oppose Putin's war.
Because: I typically really don't care about what one random Israeli wrote. There are Israelis who refuse to use the country's name. So? And more so when writing in the self-hating rag known as Haaretz.

That is why I did not quote anything from the article but directed my response solely to you. Ever since I joined RF, I've seen you state many times over how you used to be a big supporter of Israel. But as time goes on, I doubt this statement more and more. I don't believe I've ever seen you write anything nice about the country. Criticism works when credit is given where credit is due. But as you wrote in the beginning of your OP, you fully agree with the writer. Israel is the land of darkness, or whatevs.

Tell me, have you bothered to check why Israel isn't doing what you think it should be doing? Do you know everything about Israeli foreign policy? For that matter, what do you know about Israeli foreign policy?
Tell me, can you produce evidence that every single country that voted for calling out Russia in that recent UN resolution is accepting refugees? Is every country actually giving its all for Ukraine? And in other crises, how many countries have helped during those times? Are you aware that there are still pockets of Syrian resistance? Reiterating my previous question, when was the last time you helped Syrian refugees? I take it that every time there was some sort of natural disaster in Haiti, you were the first in line. Should I gather you have Venezuelan refugees living in your home? How about Christians fleeing from China? Eritreans seeking a better life? Pakistanis? Ethiopian Falashmurah? Iranian rebels?

You mentioned a Russian oligarch. I have absolutely no idea what or who you're talking about. What I know is that Israel is banning entry to oligarchs at the moment, including docking their yachts and ships in Israeli docks.

But no, none of any this matters. Because for some reason you seem to believe that Israel must be perfect. 100%, like orange juice. One toe out of your mind's imaginary line and that's it. The pit of shadows. The realm of darkness. The land of all evil. Literal hell on earth.

Give me a break.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Israel was not created as a country for non-Jews.

So it was created as a country for only one ethnic-religious group? Or am I misreading something here? Because such a foundation for a state seems extremely reminiscent of theocratic and ethno-fascist notions.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
So it was created as a country for only one ethnic-religious group? Or am I misreading something here?
Uh...duh? Of course it was created as a state for Jews. You should read some history about why the country was established. One state for Jews and one state for Arabs. I recommend checking out the UN debates on the subject. The ones from the late 40s that is. By the way, the Arabs didn't get their state because they refused even the possibility of making Jewish-owned land into a Jewish state (which was basically the original division of the land) and they didn't even want their own state. They wanted to be part of the Arab ethnic collective, which is why they never complained when Jordan controlled their land until the Six Day War. The Jews accepted what they could get.

Because such a foundation for a state seems extremely reminiscent of theocratic and ethno-fascist notions.
Okay.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Whom has Israel assisted in the past 20 years?
Here's some governmental propaganda: https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/aid/pages/israel_humanitarian_aid.aspx
You are welcome to fact check all of this. Good luck and don't keep me posted.
It is my job to teach my country's language to migrants and refugees, which I would consider a form of assistance.
Shkoyech.
Your mileage may vary. Obviously I'm not going to rescue them physically from a warzone, what with me living a continent away and not really being of any military use to begin with. I suppose that last part renders me inherently worthless in your eyes, which is fine by me, this is not a competition after all.
My mileage does vary, but then again I don't boast of moral superiority left and right.
It's really part of my job, think nothing of it!
It was directed at people who already commented on this thread. Not at the whole of RF.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
Uh...duh? Of course it was created as a state for Jews. You should read some history about why the country was established. One state for Jews and one state for Arabs. I recommend checking out the UN debates on the subject. The ones from the late 40s that is. By the way, the Arabs didn't get their state because they refused even the possibility of making Jewish-owned land into a Jewish state (which was basically the original division of the land) and they didn't even want their own state. They wanted to be part of the Arab ethnic collective, which is why they never complained when Jordan controlled their land until the Six Day War. The Jews accepted what they could get.


Okay.


Well, why would Jews get to take over and name a state when the place was for all religions? The Belfour Agreement... There were soo many Jews entering in that they took over and are killing and refusing the rights of the Palestinians til this day. No one likes to be kicked out of their homes. Imagine someone saying they are coming in ....due to the Brits etc. and you have no choice in the matter....just like when they came into America and killed the natives...where is the right in that? Then the influx of Jews so they "must expand" and that means kicking out more Palestinians which is going against the agreements which Israel is NOT upholding. They are doing what they wish and no one has the balls to stand up to them because they don't want to get involved.
 

MyM

Well-Known Member
Helpful with what?

living and you do not know how much they are spending and neither do I but they do help out a lot. Whereas Israel could care less because they are greedy and want more land for themselves.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
living and you do not know how much they are spending and neither do I but they do help out a lot. Whereas Israel could care less because they are greedy and want more land for themselves.
So if I understand you correctly, when I asked when was the last time you helped refugees, you answered that other people (you never actually stated whether they were refugees or not) help you. Are you and/or your family refugees?
 
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