Israel (is) my son...my firstborn.

[Redemptionsong]

Your false prophet Paul claims to be the apostle to the Gentile church, in which "Gentile" refers to non Jewish nations. Peter and Paul per Zechariah 11:7-10 & 17 were chosen as "shepherds", to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zech 11:7). The fact that the "Gentile" church (daughters of Babylon) still exist, does not mean that its destruction is not at hand (Rev 18:21). Your "church" is a conglomeration of around 30,000 different sects, which time to time kill each other, or at least wipe each out. As for "heaven" being you promised land, well according to Ezekiel 37:24-25, the "land that I gave Jacob" ruled by David is the promised land (kingdom of God). At that time your "nations"/Gentiles will be ruled with a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15). As for being "born again", give me a break. If one is born of God, one cannot practice sin, and Paul's church all claim to be sinners. (1 John 3:8-9) "The one who practices sin is of the devil", or in this case born of his false prophet Paul, who "commit lawlessness" (Mt 13:38-42) and will be gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire.

Denominations are really an irrelevance. What matters is an individual's relationship with Christ Jesus.

Individuals will differ in their faithfulness to Jesus, even after initially agreeing to follow him. Some will give up when the heat gets too much, some will drift back into the world, others will run the race faithfully.

Where do you stand?

 

[2ndpillar]

Denominations are really an irrelevance. What matters is an individual's relationship with Christ Jesus.

Individuals will differ in their faithfulness to Jesus, even after initially agreeing to follow him. Some will give up when the heat gets too much, some will drift back into the world, others will run the race faithfully.

Where do you stand?

Are you saying that "many" of those who call themselves "born again" Christians, are not saved according to the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, removing yourself of course. How did they initially "come out of the world", and how did they eventually return? As for where I stand, I accept the testimony of Yeshua, whereas he says that the "beast with two horns like a lamb", will "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth", and that the "two horns", Christ like leaders, Peter and Paul, and the "beast" being the Roman emperor Constantine, who set up Easter, Sunday, and the Trinity, which are all "abdominal" dogmas of most of the Gentile church sects, including your own. And that they all bow down to the sun god/Sol Invictus/"dragon" and his fellow gods and are all looking at a consequence of drinking from the cup of "His anger" (Rev 14:10). And what is your "individual relationship with Jesus Christ" versus that of a "born again Christian", of another sect? Do they portray 42 generations between Abraham and "Jesus"? Are you both wrong, or are you both using a mystical type of math?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Are you saying that "many" of those who call themselves "born again" Christians, are not saved according to the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, removing yourself of course. How did they initially "come out of the world", and how did they eventually return? As for where I stand, I accept the testimony of Yeshua, whereas he says that the "beast with two horns like a lamb", will "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth", and that the "two horns", Christ like leaders, Peter and Paul, and the "beast" being the Roman emperor Constantine, who set up Easter, Sunday, and the Trinity, which are all "abdominal" dogmas of most of the Gentile church sects, including your own. And that they all bow down to the sun god/Sol Invictus/"dragon" and his fellow gods and are all looking at a consequence of drinking from the cup of "His anger" (Rev 14:10). And what is your "individual relationship with Jesus Christ" versus that of a "born again Christian", of another sect? Do they portray 42 generations between Abraham and "Jesus"? Are you both wrong, or are you both using a mystical type of math?

It's interesting to see how you interpret scripture! The problem with this approach is that it becomes totally a matter of personal preference, and nothing to do with the canon of scripture.

You may think that men determined the canon of scripture, but this automatically demonstrates a lack of faith in God. Either God is big enough to ensure the accuracy of his own testimony, or nothing is worthy of our faith. As it happens, l believe that lsrael was chosen by God, and both testaments of the Bible provide an 'unbroken' scripture.

The picture you paint of the NT is of a false Gospel of grace, but this was always God's plan in Abraham. The law of Moses was never intended to be the way of salvation. If you think law, rather than faith, is the way of salvation, then provide the scriptural evidence.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The love of God is not an alien love, it simply has a greater capacity than man's love, which is restricted by our sinful nature.

I don't think that it simply has greater capacity, and I think that it is quite alien and to us quite cold. Meanwhile God would probably see our love as petty like the way that a squirrel chases a nut. But that is just how I see it after suffering and seeing people suffer and die in horrible ways, supposedly for a greater good. A lot of people agree with you that God is passionate like we are, but I don't accept that. It sounds nice but sounds like a wish. One of the scriptures that causes me to lean this way is Hebrews 4:15. One of the salient points of having a priest is that the priest is able to empathize with our weaknesses, which implies that God does not. Having no empathy with our weakness is one thing which makes God's love alien and cold to me. This is not something that I can change. I don't think God is like us, and no amount of talk is going to change my mind about it. I think we barely comprehend God at all and have very little in common; and I think our capacity for morality is the only sense in which we are made in God's image. I think there are almost no other commonalities, but don't be sad: its just how I see it. This I think is why getting too close to God is destructive for we humans. In a way this is like what you are saying about our sinful nature, however its not completely the same idea.

To my understanding, the law acts as a teacher, preparing the ground for the coming of Christ, the righteousness of God.

If we do not live by faith in the love of God, then we make our own love the of object of boasting.

The reason that Tovia Singer is wrong about Jesus is that he imagines it is possible to find salvation through acts of self righteousness. Yet, man's righteousness is always tainted by sin, and it takes a sinless man to conquer death. And, according to the scriptures, the only sinless man, Jesus, was begotten of a miracle at conception.

I've no doubt that to Tovia Singer your concept of salvation is as alien as a rabbit with frog legs, so of course he doesn't agree with you.

Most likely to Tovia Singer the law is salvation: a protocol for having a balanced life and for having a culture that is eternal. For many it is how to avoid pissing God off while also not getting so close that you are burned up by God, but that is a mystical and optional view of the law. (Only in that tiny fractional view is there any overlap at all with your concept of salvation.) It is about always having the right number of friends and family and children and always being ready and able to help those you know plus others. It is a protocol for keeping your mind from evil thoughts, from anger, from impatience, from resentment, from jealousy. It is a tool to vanquish war and suffering and to overcome aggression both in yourself and in those who attack. It is also for preparing the next generation to replace yourself. Its nothing like what you say when you use the word 'Salvation'. You aren't talking about the same things. You and Tovia are just not even in the same room.

 

[2ndpillar]

It's interesting to see how you interpret scripture! The problem with this approach is that it becomes totally a matter of personal preference, and nothing to do with the canon of scripture.

You may think that men determined the canon of scripture, but this automatically demonstrates a lack of faith in God. Either God is big enough to ensure the accuracy of his own testimony, or nothing is worthy of our faith. As it happens, l believe that lsrael was chosen by God, and both testaments of the Bible provide an 'unbroken' scripture.

The picture you paint of the NT is of a false Gospel of grace, but this was always God's plan in Abraham. The law of Moses was never intended to be the way of salvation. If you think law, rather than faith, is the way of salvation, then provide the scriptural evidence.

The proof is in the pudding. God told Israel if they kept his commandments, that they would be blessed, and if they did not, they would be cursed. Well, here we go, over 2000 years of judgment for Judah and Ephraim, and only the "acknowledgement of their guilt", after "two days" (2000 years) will they be healed. (Hosea 5:12-6:2). While on the other hand, the Gentile church remains in their sins, and in their corruption, as in their plagues, with an outlook for those who survive, of them being ruled from Jerusalem by the "King" (Zech 14:16), who will rule them with a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15). It might be better for the Gentiles to die in the ongoing wind, rain, and floods, then to have to suffer through the coming "great tribulation". (Mt 7:27 & Mt 24:21) As for their faith in Paul, well Paul is dead and buried. If you ask the Catholics, they will say that his grave is in Rome. As for the NT being the "Word of God", hold on there, Yeshua said his message, the "message" of the "son of man", would be mixed with the message of the "enemy"/"devil" (Matthew 13:24-51), and the tares would be protected by him, until the end of the age, when the "tares", those who hold on to the message of the "enemy" would be gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (great tribulation). Now you can twist and turn the actual Word of God into anything you like, but in the end, it will come and bite you.