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Israel Fires on Humanitarian Aid Flotilla

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Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
From Haaretz:

The Israeli military said 10 activists were killed after its troops came under fire while intercepting the convoy. Unofficial reports put the death toll at between 14 and 20.
"Our initial findings show that at least 10 convoy participants were killed," an army spokesman said.
The military said in a statement: "Navy fighters took control of six ships that tried to violate the naval blockade (of the Gaza Strip) ... During the takeover, the soldiers encountered serious physical violence by the protesters, who attacked them with live fire."
The IDF earlier confirmed that two navy commandos had been wounded in fight, which apparently broke out after activists tried to sieze their weapons.
According to the IDF, commandos who stormed the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara, the largest vessel in the convoy, encountered violent resistance from activists armed with sticks and knives. Activists attacked a commando with iron bars as he descended onto the ship from a helicopter, the army said. The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a "life-threatening situation".
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Full article: At least 10 activists killed in Israel Navy clashes onboard Gaza aid flotilla - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


Video of Israeli Navy warnings to the flotilla:

[youtube]P6jDIQr59Sk[/youtube]
YouTube - IDF - Navy Warns Flotilla (31 May 2010)

BBC article and video: BBC News - Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
 
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Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
This flotilla was a damned stupid stunt if they were actually interested in delivering humanitarian supplies. If they were interested in a confrontation with Israel, I suppose they got what they wanted.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Smoke said:
This flotilla was a damned stupid stunt if they were actually interested in delivering humanitarian supplies. If they were interested in a confrontation with Israel, I suppose they got what they wanted.
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Stunt?

Israeli forces kill 10 people involved in a humanitarian mission in international waters and it's what the dead people wanted?
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Caladan said:
From Haaretz:



Full article: At least 10 activists killed in Israel Navy clashes onboard Gaza aid flotilla - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


Video of Israeli Navy warnings to the flotilla:

[youtube]P6jDIQr59Sk[/youtube]
YouTube - IDF - Navy Warns Flotilla (31 May 2010)

BBC article and video: BBC News - Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
Click to expand...

Caladan, as you know I live in Texas and a few years ago the state ran an anti littering campaign with the slogan "Don't Mess with Texas."

I am going to have a bunch of bumper stickers made up that say "Don't Mess with Israel" and send them over to you, OK?

I mean - damn. DON'T MESS WITH ISRAEL. They're serious. They don't play around. If you threaten them, they are going to kick your ***, or die trying.

And I don't blame them.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Kathryn said:
Caladan, as you know I live in Texas and a few years ago the state ran an anti littering campaign with the slogan "Don't Mess with Texas."

I am going to have a bunch of bumper stickers made up that say "Don't Mess with Israel" and send them over to you, OK?

I mean - damn. DON'T MESS WITH ISRAEL. They're serious. They don't play around. If you threaten them, they are going to kick your ***, or die trying.

And I don't blame them.
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So shooting people dead in international waters is acceptable?
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Jayhawker Soule said:
Violent anti-Zionist provocation meets Israeli operational incompetence.
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Labeling this as operational incompetence before an investigation was even held is a stretch. maintaining an order out of a scenario which involves 600 to 800 people on board the ships, with people out of this crowd engaging in violence demands the highest level of discipline, experience, and training, and the guys from the naval commandos have proven themselves over and over when they siezed ships carrying an arsenal of weaponry into Gaza, one thing they are not, and that is incompetent.
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
stephenw said:
Stunt?

Israeli forces kill 10 people involved in a humanitarian mission in international waters and it's what the dead people wanted?
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Stephen, I'm not saying this is the case, because I haven't looked into this particular story much yet, but have you ever heard of suicide by cop? Or suicide bombers?

Radicals often provoke, even to the point of suicide, to further their cause. And unfortunately, this mindset seems to be all the rage with radical Muslims these days.

Just saying - it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Dan,

They managed the situation in such a way that there are 10 civilian corpses. That's incompetent.
Arrest civilians - fine, argue it out in court. Corpses = incompetence.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Kathryn said:
Stephen, I'm not saying this is the case, because I haven't looked into this particular story much yet, but have you ever heard of suicide by cop? Or suicide bombers?

Radicals often provoke, even to the point of suicide, to further their cause. And unfortunately, this mindset seems to be all the rage with radical Muslims these days.

Just saying - it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility.
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There is an Irish ship and there are Irish peace activists on board that flotilla. There were supposed to have been 2 members of the Irish parliament on board. Radical Islam?
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
stephenw said:
Dan,

They managed the situation in such a way that there are 10 civilian corpses. That's incompetent.
Arrest civilians - fine, argue it out in court. Corpses = incompetence.
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If the soldiers were attacked, as some of the footage shows, then they had quite a chaotic scenario to maintain, I would call the end results tragic, but considering the circumstances I would not shrug it off as incompetence.
 
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sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Caladan said:
If the soldiers were attacked, as some of the footage shows, then they had quite a chaotic scenario to maintain, I would call the end results a tragedy, but considering the circumstances I would not shrug it off as incompetence.
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The soldiers were put into that situation. That is the incompetence.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Caladan said:
What's the alternative?
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I am not a military man so am unqualified to answer that question. However as a thinking person I hold the view that in international waters, trained military people behaving in a way resulting in 10+ dead people and many wounded is incompetent.
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
stephenw said:
I am not a military man so am unqualified to answer that question. However as a thinking person I hold the view that in international waters, trained military people behaving in a way resulting in 10+ dead people and many wounded is incompetent.
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Then I'm sorry to say stephen, you are easily swayed by media headlines without analyzing a situation which involves 600-800 people in the high seas with reports of people from the crowd trying to snatch the weapons of the soldiers (an Israeli soldier is reportedly shot as a result of this), reports of other live arms, knives, and iron bars. furthermore the ships were offered to dock in an Israeli port and the goods to be delievered through formal channels. so there was certainly an attempt by the Israeli authority to prevent this kind of confrontation to begin with.
 
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