Israel as an Arboretum.

[74x12]

yes, they are hierarchy of spiritual beings Eph 1:20-23. No Devil here.

The fallen angels continue to have ranks even though they're not serving God anymore.

 

[socharlie]

The fallen angels continue to have ranks even though they're not serving God anymore.

angels can not fall, they are spiritual beings, there is only One God , everything is subject to God . there is no adverse force to God that can rebel or do things against Gods approval. Only men can do it because of free will.

 

[74x12]

angels can not fall, they are spiritual beings, there is only One God , everything is subject to God . there is no adverse force to God that can rebel or do things against Gods approval. Only men can do it because of free will.

Angels make decisions like we do. 1 Tim. 5:21 says "elect angels", so this means that some angels must not be elect.

 

[socharlie]

angels means messengers, it says they are selected , appointed, hand picked had no choice. in their selection
"Cognate: 1588 eklektós (an adjective, derived from 1586 /eklégomai, "to select, choose," also used as a substantive/noun) – properly, selected (chosen from, out of), especially as a deeply personal choice – literally "chosen, out of a personal preference (intention)." See 1586 (eklegomai)." from Strong's

 

[74x12]

angels means messengers, it says they are selected , appointed, hand picked had no choice. in their selection
"Cognate: 1588 eklektós (an adjective, derived from 1586 /eklégomai, "to select, choose," also used as a substantive/noun) – properly, selected (chosen from, out of), especially as a deeply personal choice – literally "chosen, out of a personal preference (intention)." See 1586 (eklegomai)." from Strong's

But it uses the same word about humans as in Romans 8:33 among other scriptures. If some angels are chosen; then that implies others are not. Otherwise scripture would not need to mention that God had chosen them.

 

[Baroodi]

All mankind stemmed from Adam, DNA will not privilege one race than another. The Jews were privileged by given the kinghood and prophethood in their ancestors at that time
( The more respected in the eye of God among you, are those who are more pious) noble Quran

 

[John D. Brey]

It's 100% permitted to marry a person of any race or nationality so long as they convert to Judaism. The question is the person's religion, not the person's race as implied by the OP.

Why does a Gentile woman have to ascribe to a set of religious beliefs to marry an atheist Jewish man whose mother, though also an atheist, was presumed to be Jewish? -----How come a Gentile has to accept religious proclamations to be Jewish, but a person whose mother is Jewish (and atheist) doesn't have to accept the very religious proclamations being required of his wife-to-be?

Even this sounds racist: You have to believe in the Jewish God to marry me, but because I'm inborn Jewish I don't have to believe a damn thing. -------Do you still want to marry me?

Though this topic exceeds the knowledge base and concern of most people here (as has been shown over and over again) the state of affairs described above shows the problem with trying to make memes, say religious beliefs, genetic, such that they can be passed on (mixed) through genetic mixing (phallic-sex). A Jew come from people who don't draw a distinct line between meme-life and gene-life is Jewish though an atheist, while his bride must at least once profess Jewish memes for them to mix with her genes so she can give birth to a Jew even if she reverts to being an atheist, divorces the Jewish atheist, marries a goy atheist, mixes genes with his (phallic-sex), so that the geneticized Jewish memes produced at her conversion still get passed on through this atheistic gene-mixing.

Once her Jewish memes have geneticized, she can believe anything she wants and those geneticized memes will get passed on to her offspring (through genetic mixing, phallic-sex) even if she's become an anti-semite and would want nothing so little as for her child to be Jewish. -----She has no choice once her memes have geneticized. Which is a process unique to Judaism.

This is to say, having held Jewish memes, beliefs, just once, she becomes a Jew, which, a Jew, is a person whose memes so mix with their genes that there's no longer a distinction between "believing" (memetics) and birthing (genetics). (Note that there are more atheist Jews on the planet today ---- born to atheist Jews mind you ---- than Jews who "believe" in the Jewish concept of God since once memes geneticize "belief" is so mixed with genes that belief is no longer necessary.)

It's the same thing with the circumcision scar as a mark in the genetic flesh that doesn't require a memetic (thought-invoking) referent so far as a Jew is concerned. . . A non-Jew would say something like "If you're going to give me a mark signifying my Jewish faith, put it across my heart, so all the world knows it's near and dear to my heart." -----If told that it's gotta be put on the penis, a non-Jew might say what does my penis have to do with what I believe in my heart? "My penis mixes my genes and gets rid of waste. What possible relationship does it have to my faith in God"?

Under Paul, [Jewish] beliefs became the focal point for movements that, freed of genetic anchors, could sweep across the face of the world, gathering humans of all kinds within their grasp. For when Paul separated genes and gods, he helped unleash a force that would bring together superorganismic groupings on a scale the world had never seen. He helped make the meme the world's most powerful form of replicator.

Howard Bloom, The Lucifer Principle.​

John

 

[Tumah]

Why does a Gentile woman have to ascribe to a set of religious beliefs to marry an atheist Jewish man whose mother, though also an atheist, was presumed to be Jewish? -----How come a Gentile has to accept religious proclamations to be Jewish, but a person whose mother is Jewish (and atheist) doesn't have to accept the very religious proclamations being required of his wife-to-be?

Even this sounds racist: You have to believe in the Jewish God to marry me, but because I'm inborn Jewish I don't have to believe a damn thing. -------Do you still want to marry me?

Whatever the reason, the fact that a convert ultimately can marry a Jew (or another convert) and have regular Jewish children proves that being Jewish has nothing to do with race. Similarly, the fact that once a convert becomes Jewish, it doesn't matter if they turn to atheism, they can't lose their Jewish status, proves that it has nothing to do with race. Being Jewish is a status that can't be dropped. It doesn't matter whether you were born Jewish or converted, it's a one way ticket. An African and a Native American can separately convert to Judaism, then become atheist and not keep a single Law, marry each other and have a child that will be 100% Jewish.

You're grasping at straws and male genitals as usual.

 

[John D. Brey]

Whatever the reason, the fact that a convert ultimately can marry a Jew (or another convert) and have regular Jewish children proves that being Jewish has nothing to do with race. .

. . . You've lost me? If two goy convert to Judaism, get married, do the dirty, conceive a child, revert to atheism during the pregnancy (both of them), give birth to a daughter, that daughter's matriarchal line, til kingdom come, say its a 100 generations, will all, all of them, be Jewish, even if all of them are atheists and antisemites.

A knee-jerk decision, signified by Jewish men, lasting all of a few months, somehow transforms an entire genetic-line, the matriarchal line of the two-month-Jewish mother (the mother of the daughter) into Jews forever and ever. . . How is this knee-jerk decision, lasting all of two months, not the geneticizing of some brief (so to say) memes (ideas), since thousands of genetic offspring will be Jewish for the two months of belief in Jewish ideas?

How is this not a case of a short--lived belief in Jewish ideas being able to transform the genes of a person so that for ever and ever their matriarchal line will be Jewish (even if every one of them is athiest)? And why the matriarchal line? Why doesn't the patrilineal line get to geneticize Jewish belief?

I'm not asking these questions in jest. Or to demean Jewish law. On the contrary. I so believe in the legitimacy of Jewish law that I've spend more time than anyone you probably know with my nose in Rashi, Nachmanides, Rabbi Hirsch, and all the Jewish scriptures, trying to find a way to make this all makes sense rather than just accepting it as ethnicity publicizing pablum.

Everything I've said in the last five or six threads in this forum makes sense of these oddities; actually makes them viable, reasonable, and logical. . . That's no small feat. Though I accept your kick in the teeth as the very reward I expected, since these things aren't about pats on the back, or gain of any kind, but precisely getting kicked in the teeth, smiling, and going back to Hebrew exegesis and candle-light studies.


John

 

[Tumah]

. . . You've lost me? If two goy convert to Judaism, get married, do the dirty, conceive a child, revert to atheism during the pregnancy (both of them), give birth to a daughter, that daughter's matriarchal line, til kingdom come, say its a 100 generations, will all, all of them, be Jewish, even if all of them are atheists and antisemites.

I am not here to answer your questions. I'm only here to show everyone else on this forum that the insanity you pass off as Jewish is not in fact actual Jewish belief, but your own twisted ideas that you're superimposing onto us. In this thread you put forward the claim that Judaism is racist because it only allows marriage to Jews. I defeated that claim. I have nothing more to add to that, since the rest of your posts are obviously ramblings of insanity and I'm not worried that someone will confuse that with our beliefs.

Everything I've said in the last five or six threads in this forum makes sense of these oddities; actually makes them viable, reasonable, and logical. . . That's no small feat. Though I accept your kick in the teeth as the very reward I expected, since these things aren't about pats on the back, or gain of any kind, but precisely getting kicked in the teeth, smiling, and going back to Hebrew exegesis and candle-light studies.

We don't need you to make our religion make sense to you. Or to pass of twisted understanding of our religion to the world as the theological underpinnings of our religion. So you can rest assured that so long as you continue to try to pass off your nonsense as Judaism or Jewish belief, I'll continue to kick your teeth in.

 

[John D. Brey]

So you can rest assured that so long as you continue to try to pass off your nonsense as Judaism or Jewish belief, I'll continue to kick your teeth in.

Now though I might be toothless after our encounter, I doubt that that would stop a thoughtful reader who still has his teeth from sinking them into facts and figures which, though true, you find offensive. -----In other words, you're angry that you can't respond to facts about Jewish law and ritual, which you're knowledgeable enough to know I'm not misrepresenting. You're angry that the most important decrees in Jewish law are chukkim, whose symbolic import isn't known to Jews, and won't be known to Jews, until Messiah comes for Jews, to fill up what's currently missing: the seminal meaning of the decrees and rituals.

But Messiah has already come for some. Which is why I can not only faithfully describe Jewish laws, and decrees, but can say what the sign's referent is (what the rituals signify). . . That's probably what bothers you: that I can link the laws and decrees to meaningful referents, while you, because Messiah hasn't come for you yet, must bide your time, merely performing rituals, practicing rules and laws, that require obedience not knowledge, strict observance under threat of punishment, not freedom of action based on full-knowledge of why one is performing the ritual, why one is doing what he's doing, and does what he does, i.e., out of knowledge and truth, rather than fear of violence and the threat of karet that's lurking behind every act of disobedience toward a Jewish decree.


John

 

[Agugz]

Hmm well if it is a rule then Abaraham himself broke it by conceiving a child with Hagar the egyptian handmaid.

Ishmael - Wikipedia

Which eventually lead to Muhammad the founder of Islam.

Excellent point.