Israel and the soon return of Yeshua Christ

[outhouse]

The supernatural events recorded in the scriptures, such as the creation account or the flood, are treated and recorded as matter- of –fact as the other historical events in the scriptures and are referred to by the apostles and Jesus Himself as historical fact and reality.


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Scientifically, the flood and creation factually never happened. They are not fact.


I dont care if someone believed it, many children believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny.


I never stated the bible was 100% mytholoy only that it factully contains mythology.

 

[InChrist]

Scientifically, the flood and creation factually never happened. They are not fact.


I dont care if someone believed it, many children believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny.


I never stated the bible was 100% mytholoy only that it factully contains mythology.

Did I say you said the Bible was 100% mythology? If I did, I’m sorry. I just get the impression that those with an atheistic perspective attempt categorize the entire Bible as myth or highlight the supernatural accounts as myth so as to delegitimize the rest of the scriptures. If that is not your attitude, forgive me.


I think you should say that you don’t believe the flood and creation accounts of the Bible, rather than, “Scientifically, the flood and creation factually never happened. They are not fact.“ because scientifically there is no prove that they did not occur as the Bible states they did. There is no way for humans to now have observational scientific proof one way or another. The only way to have information concerning these events is through God revealing it to humanity, which I believe He did through the scriptures. One either believes God’s revelation or rejects it.


On the other hand, there is observational evidence right now for all to see that God’s Word is accurate concerning the fact that the nation of Israel is an extremely important focus of world politics and events as foretold for the last days of history.

 

[outhouse]

If that is not your attitude, forgive me..

No problem brother.

I think you should say that you don’t believe the flood and creation accounts of the Bible, rather than, “Scientifically, the flood and creation factually never happened. They are not fact.“ because scientifically there is no prove that they did not occur as the Bible states they did. There is no way for humans to now have observational scientific proof one way or another.

Believe it or not, it is fact the earth is billions of years old, and evolution is now fact as well. As well as life being here for over 2 billion years.

Fact means it is not even up for debate.


WE evolved, fact. We as homo sapiens as writen were not created.

There is no evidence anywhere for a global flood. There is however flood mythology that existed prior to Israelites existing, and this early flood mythology mirrors the later Israelites version word for word in many places, and was finished just after they came back from the Babylonian exile EXACTLY where this mythology originated from a real attested river flood.

The only way to have information concerning these events is through God revealing it to humanity, which I believe He did through the scriptures.

Therte is no evidence, anything was revealed. If it was the god concept he made many factual erros. That is not something I would attribute to your deity. It better to say man wrote these books and used mythology when making these errors.

Israelites formed from displaced Canaanites and used these Canaanite deities, this has been claimed fact by Isarel Finkelstein.

I think it is factual there was no early conquest, and that Israelites formed after 1200 BC. before that they were Canaanites and other semtic peoples from other collapsed culture that died around this time period.

On the other hand, there is observational evidence right now for all to see that God’s Word is accurate concerning the fact that the nation of Israel is an extremely important focus of world politics and events as foretold for the last days of history

That is luck

The whole area has been fighting for thousands of years, before jesus existed they fought, and they have still are fighting.


BUt important? absolutely not. China and Russia are much bigger concerns then what happens there. That is world politics. Not these people that have always fought one another for what seems forever

 

[outhouse]

Mt biggest issue with you in this thread is that you claimed "soon" by making this claim you are joining all the others who have predicted dates.

And to date, all those that have predicted anything at all, have all been dead wrong.

 

[steeltoes]

Did I say you said the Bible was 100% mythology? If I did, I’m sorry. I just get the impression that those with an atheistic perspective attempt categorize the entire Bible as myth or highlight the supernatural accounts as myth so as to delegitimize the rest of the scriptures. If that is not your attitude, forgive me.

How does viewing The Bible as all myth "delegitimize" the scriptures?

 

[InChrist]

Believe it or not, it is fact the earth is billions of years old, and evolution is now fact as well. As well as life being here for over 2 billion years.

Fact means it is not even up for debate.


WE evolved, fact. We as homo sapiens as writen were not created.

[FONT=&quot]Well, I don’t believe it is fact, but of course you are welcome to. I’m not sure why you are emphasizing evolution right now since this thread is not really about evolution/creation (or the flood for that matter) and although I'll address the flood issue you brought up I don’t really feel like getting side-tracked to these subjects.


[/FONT]

There is no evidence anywhere for a global flood. There is however flood mythology that existed prior to Israelites existing, and this early flood mythology mirrors the later Israelites version word for word in many places, and was finished just after they came back from the Babylonian exile EXACTLY where this mythology originated from a real attested river flood.

I think there is evidence of a global flood. It's just that an atheist will interpret the same evidence differently than one who believes the scriptures, but I'm not going any further into that discussion here.

The fact that there are many flood accounts and even myths from several cultures would indicate the likelihood of an actual flood event having occurred. Many liberal scholars have proposed the theory that the Israelites “borrowed" from the Babylonian flood story, yet there is no proof to show they did. Contrary to your statement that the biblical version mirrors the Babylonian version there are differences, including religious, ethical, and the quantity of details. Although there may be similarities especially since in all probability they refer to the same event, the stories are by no means word for word. So I think it quite unlikely that the Hebrew (biblical) account was dependent on any source from the Sumerian traditions. The Hebrews were known for carefully handing down their records and tradition so my view is that the biblical account is the original and accurate one preserved by God and the Babylonian version a corrupted and embellished account of the same event. Besides, I am of the perspective that Moses did write the first five books of the Bible and therefore the creation account in Genesis was recorded well before the captivity of the Israelites in Babylon.
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

Therte is no evidence, anything was revealed. If it was the god concept he made many factual erros. That is not something I would attribute to your deity. It better to say man wrote these books and used mythology when making these errors.

I see enough evidence of God’s revelation and sorry to disagree, but while there may be difficulties I don’t see errors in the scriptures.

Israelites formed from displaced Canaanites and used these Canaanite deities, this has been claimed fact by Isarel Finkelstein.

That is his claimed conjecture.

I think it is factual there was no early conquest, and that Israelites formed after 1200 BC. before that they were Canaanites and other semtic peoples from other collapsed culture that died around this time period.

[FONT=&quot]And this is your conjecture.


[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

That is luck

Luck or the hand of God? It has never happened before in all of human history that a nation of people was displaced and spread throughout the world for nearly 1900 years to come back again together as one nation in their homeland.

The whole area has been fighting for thousands of years, before jesus existed they fought, and they have still are fighting.


BUt important? absolutely not. China and Russia are much bigger concerns then what happens there. That is world politics. Not these people that have always fought one another for what seems forever

[/quote]

Except that the nation of Israel was not involved in the fighting in the Middle East for nearly 1900 years as the Jewish people were scattered throughout the world. The fact that they are back in the land of Israel as a nation again is significant. You may not think Israel is important, but the UN seems to think so having made more resolutions against the tiny nation of Israel than any other country.

 

[InChrist]

Mt biggest issue with you in this thread is that you claimed "soon" by making this claim you are joining all the others who have predicted dates.

And to date, all those that have predicted anything at all, have all been dead wrong.

I can understand you taking issue with someone who predicts a date. I have an issue with that, too, because it is unbiblical and goes directly against the words of Jesus Christ that no one knows the day or hour of His return. But He said to watch and pray and that there would be signs which indicate the time of His return is near...or soon, which a person who is watching and being observant would and should see.

At least I would expect you to be able to differentiate between setting a date and ... soon. They are not the same. Christ said He would return at some point. If I said it will happen on Feb. 22, 2014 and it doesn't I would be dead wrong, as you say. But if I say it will happen soon and it does next week, next month,in two years, five years or ten years that is still soon and I am not wrong or stating anything that is unreasonable in the light of the scriptures.

 

[InChrist]

How does viewing The Bible as all myth "delegitimize" the scriptures?

In reality it doesn't delegitimize the scriptures themselves, except in the minds of those who believe the scriptures are myth. If one thinks of the scriptures solely as myths then there is no point in trusting them as a reliable authority or basing one's important life decisions or eternal destiny on the information they provide.

 

[Quirkybird]

I see the scriptures showing the establishment and events surrounding the modern state of Israel as the greatest sign and indication of the end of the age and the soon return of Yeshua, Jesus Christ. Does anyone else see this clear fulfillment of God's prophetic word taking place right before our eyes?

"Yeshua spoke of a generation that would not see death until all these things are fulfilled, and how to determine the signs of that time. Again, lets look at what the Scriptures say about the importance of the modern nation of Israel, which is the greatest sign of the soon return of Yeshua, our Blessed Hope (Titus 2:13). Isaiah 66:8 declares Israel would be born in a day, which was fulfilled May14, 1948."

Israel: God’s Prophetic Time Clock
By Ray Smith

A load of silly nonsense in my opinion. That sort of garbage blighted my childhood and it can be VERY abusive if a child is threatened with the 'you must be 'saved' or else' nasty dogma'!

 

[outhouse]

That is his claimed conjecture.

[FONT=&quot]And this is your conjecture.


[/FONT]

It is beyond conjecture


It is not disputed by anyone with credibility.

 

[outhouse]

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At least I would expect you to be able to differentiate between setting a date and ... soon. They are not the same. .

Soon, is placing a general time period.


That means you know have the possibility to join all those in the past who have done such.


And guess what, every last one of them was wrong, dead wrong.



That means your an the tracks headed to wrongville like all those before you.

 

[InChrist]

A load of silly nonsense in my opinion. That sort of garbage blighted my childhood and it can be VERY abusive if a child is threatened with the 'you must be 'saved' or else' nasty dogma'!

I feel sorry for you, but this thread has nothing to do with threatening a child and it isn't even about being saved.

 

[InChrist]

Soon, is placing a general time period.


That means you know have the possibility to join all those in the past who have done such.


And guess what, every last one of them was wrong, dead wrong.



That means your an the tracks headed to wrongville like all those before you.

So in order to say that you are basically saying that you think or know Jesus will never return, is that correct? I mean, that is actually the only way I could be wrong for sure because if He does return and if He said to watch for certain signs which indicate the nearness of His return then at some point "soon" would be appropriate to say wouldn't i? But you must be saying that you are sure there is no possible way that He will ever return.

 

[outhouse]

So in order to say that you are basically saying that you think or know Jesus will never return, is that correct? I mean, that is actually the only way I could be wrong for sure because if He does return and if He said to watch for certain signs which indicate the nearness of His return then at some point "soon" would be appropriate to say wouldn't i? But you must be saying that you are sure there is no possible way that He will ever return.

Dead people stay dead. Scientifically no one has ever came back from the dead outside of mythology.

I think it is 100% mythology.


But no, my comment was directed at you trying to make some prophecy come true, like your the only one who knows "he is coming soon!"


I don't think you have a clue what your talking about, and I know everyone who has claimed soon in the past has been 100% factually wrong.


If you read the books and know the info, you would understand they thought he was coming back within their lifetime. They all thought he would be back soon. And because he did not come back they wrote in "you will never know when he is coming back" so they would not have another failed prophecy to deal with.