Isn't this cute?

[SkepticThinker]

Not only fish.
For example:
"The whole range of canids, from domesticated dogs to wolves to jackals and beyond, constitutes the diversified members of the original “dog” kind."

Again ( and I don't care if you all like Answers in Genesis or not, I'm just using one of the most well known creationists site. )

"For years, creationists have emphasized a “kinds” model of biology (and thereby established the field of baraminology). This model starts with the Bible’s description of God creating unique “kinds” of plants and animals (and man as distinct from any animal kind), then applies what we know about natural selection and various genetic processes to understand the biological diversity we observe today. Rather than all creatures descending from the same original organism—a “tree” model of life—all creatures descend from the progenitors of their kind—an “orchard” model. Thus, the whole range of canids, from domesticated dogs to wolves to jackals and beyond, constitutes the diversified members of the original “dog” kind. And the confusion over the taxonomic placement of the Egyptian jackal reminds us of this biological reality."


Now perhaps you can understand that creationists are not claiming that species don't change.

I'll ask you the same thing I've asked every other creationist that prances out this kind stuff ....
What is a "kind," specifically? What "kind" is a squirrel? What kind is a hamster? Is it different or the same as a squirrel kind? What kind is a lion? Is it a "cat" kind? What "kind" is a tiger? What "kind" is a bear? What "kind" is a shark? Is a shark the same "kind" as a bass? What about a whale? What "kind" is an ant? Is it the same "kind" as a moth?

And finally, how is any of this useful to anybody?


Baraminology is not taken seriously in the science community. It's pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

[Jose Fly]

So, you're not actually interested in discussion and learning, right?

I honestly can't believe anyone bothers with this guy. Y'all must be terribly bored.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I honestly can't believe anyone bothers with this guy. Y'all must be terribly bored.

LOL I really am.

 

[Jose Fly]

LOL I really am.

I confess to the same thing from time to time. There are days (especially when it's 110+ degrees) and when I see something from one of our long-running creationists I think to myself "Ok, I'll have another tilt at this windmill".

In the end I invariably kick myself for doing so.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are mountains of evidence, more so than for even gravity or germ theory. Hence the reason it's the theory the scientific community uses to explain the diversity of life on earth. Because it works.

You don't understand it. That is very clear. And it doesn't even appear that you want to understand it. You just keep repeating things like this over and over, which is a pretty good giveaway as to your motives here.

My motive is to understand how it is thought that evolution is true. You're right, I don't understand everything. I understand the business about organisms looking alike. I know that fossils and shape or types are used to back up the theory. So in reality, yes -- I don't see that anything by placing fossils as if it fits in a place in the conjectural puzzle is reality. In other words, dates & similarity of objects do not make for evolution.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I confess to the same thing from time to time. There are days (especially when it's 110+ degrees) and when I see something from one of our long-running creationists I think to myself "Ok, I'll have another tilt at this windmill".

In the end I invariably kick myself for doing so.

Me too. Every time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

My motive is to understand how it is thought that evolution is true. You're right, I don't understand everything. I understand the business about organisms looking alike. I know that fossils and shape or types are used to back up the theory. So in reality, yes -- I don't see that anything by placing fossils as if it fits in a place in the conjectural puzzle is reality. In other words, dates & similarity of objects do not make for evolution.

The thing is, you've been provided with so many explanations and so much evidence and data at this point in the conversation that you should have a much better grasp of evolution than you once did. But then you are still repeating the same inaccurate claims and assertions that you have been since the conversation began, which is not exactly the hallmark of someone who actually wants to learn something new and expand upon their knowledge base. So you can see why I am so confused, I hope?

 

[YoursTrue]

I'll ask you the same thing I've asked every other creationist that prances out this kind stuff ....
What is a "kind," specifically? What "kind" is a squirrel? What kind is a hamster? Is it different or the same as a squirrel kind? What kind is a lion? Is it a "cat" kind? What "kind" is a tiger? What "kind" is a bear? What "kind" is a shark? Is a shark the same "kind" as a bass? What about a whale? What "kind" is an ant? Is it the same "kind" as a moth?

And finally, how is any of this useful to anybody?


Baraminology is not taken seriously in the science community. It's pseudoscientific nonsense.

As I've been reading about definitions, can you define what is a kind? And or species? That might be appreciated. Thanks. I'll figure that if you're sincere about showing where those who believe the Bible are wrong regarding these things, you would be willing to discuss this (,the definition of kind and/or species) as peacefully as possible. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

The thing is, you've been provided with so many explanations and so much evidence and data at this point in the conversation that you should have a much better grasp of evolution than you once did. But then you are still repeating the same inaccurate claims and assertions that you have been since the conversation began, which is not exactly the hallmark of someone who actually wants to learn something new and expand upon their knowledge base. So you can see why I am so confused, I hope?

I hope you will read the whole post.
I do have somewhat of a better understanding of the theory, but there are so many questions to be considered. From what I've noticed, what I get in return sometimes is instead of a peaceful answer explaining more, I get insulted. So while I've done research as much as possible, really it still doesn't answer questions. Such as, what is a kind according to evolution and what is species. Let's stick with kind first. If possible. Since my time is limited, I simply can't read all posts. Sorry about that. On the other hand I will be sure to look for your definition of kind and species. Just the definition, not necessarily a further explanation right now. Thanks. Then perhaps we can talk about it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

As I've been reading about definitions, can you define what is a kind? And or species? That might be appreciated. Thanks. I'll figure that if you're sincere about showing where those who believe the Bible are wrong regarding these things, you would be willing to discuss this (,the definition of kind and/or species) as peacefully as possible. Thank you.

As you can see from my post, that is the question I am asking YOU. Along with all the other ones you ignored.

"Kinds" isn't a word that scientists use. It's a word that creationists use. It has no meaning in science.

 

[Astrophile]

I grew up hunting and fishing. Best times! I learned a lot from those friends and family. Fortunately, these experiences are dynamic and they learned a lot from me too.

I don't envision that he is talking about the same sort of experience. I think you are correct. A box of echoes where they only hear what they want.

Charles Darwin was a keen hunter and shooter during his teenage years, and look what happened to him.

 

[Astrophile]

Authors should be more precise when they—using a qualification—inform the reader of any assumed vertical change (when one kind of living thing is changed into another kind, as Darwinian evolutionists believe has happened regularly throughout life’s history, yet has not been shown).

"The whole range of canids, from domesticated dogs to wolves to jackals and beyond, constitutes the diversified members of the original “dog” kind."

beetles remain beetles so far,

So do all the 400,000 species of beetles belong to the same kind? And if so, do all the 6,400 species of mammals belong to the same kind? In our evolution over the last 65 million years, we have remained mammals and primates, so there has been no vertical change, that is no change of kind.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Charles Darwin was a keen hunter and shooter during his teenage years, and look what happened to him.

He liked insects too. I might be on the right track.

 

[Audie]

So do all the 400,000 species of beetles belong to the same kind? And if so, do all the 6,400 species of mammals belong to the same kind? In our evolution over the last 65 million years, we have remained mammals and primates, so there has been no vertical change, that is no change of kind.

Vertical? Change of kind?
What?

 

[Audie]

He liked insects too. I might be on the right track.

But you are not, like...inordinately fond
of them?? Are you?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

But you are not, like...inordinately fond
of them?? Are you?

So much so, I bought the book.

 

[Audie]

So much so, I bought the book.

What book.

The Bug and I?
Diptera I Have Known?
"Beetle" Bailey: A biography?
Adventures in Entomology?
Matching the Hatch in War and Peace?
Luna: Eye of Woods?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What book.

The Bug and I?
Diptera I Have Known?
"Beetle" Bailey: A biography?
Adventures in Entomology?
Matching the Hatch in War and Peace?
Luna: Eye of Woods?

The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Beetle.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What book.

The Bug and I?
Diptera I Have Known?
"Beetle" Bailey: A biography?
Adventures in Entomology?
Matching the Hatch in War and Peace?
Luna: Eye of Woods?

Or maybe it was "An Inordinate Fondness of Beetles". What a story. Life. Death. The struggle to survive. I laughed. I cried. What a delightful romp.

 

[Audie]

Or maybe it was "An Inordinate Fondness of Beetles". What a story. Life. Death. The struggle to survive. I laughed. I cried. What a delightful romp.

Item no longer available

The item you are looking for is no longer available.

www.abebooks.com

I will have to read it