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Isn't it time God did something to relieve human suffering?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by retrorich, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

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    I approach religion in a very practical manner. If your religion, philosophy, or personal code of ethics makes you a better person, then it's valuable. If it doesn't, then it's absolutely worthless.

    So in other words, you haven't done anything.

    You think god should do something to relieve suffering in this world. I pointed out that god told us to do something about it. I gave you a quantifiable example of what I do, because I'm following god's instructions. It doesn't matter whether god is some fairy tale that I've deluded myself into believing, god has done measurably more to relieve suffering than you have in the last week.
     
  2. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    I'd say you are getting rather far off-topic, Karl.
     
  3. standing_alone

    standing_alone Well-Known Member

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    But isn't God the one who created Satan, who then deceived humankind? If so, by creating Satan, didn't God create suffering?

    Here's my thoughts on this thread, since the topic doesn't really bother me one way or another. I thought it was rather unfair (and off-topic) to bring up what other posters have done to relieve human suffering. That's not what this thread is about and that almost amounts to a personal attack in my opinion. Leave it as discussing the OP, not what Retrorich has done in the past week.

    If it's not something to brag about, why are you bringing it up and giving the exact amount of money you gave?
     
  4. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    I think the real question is: Isn't it Time Man Started Listening to the Voice of God in Himself and started Cleaning Up the Mess Man Has Made?

    God created Sata? That's as stupid an idea as I have ever heard. Satan was created by man as a scfapegoat, and as long as man clings to the scapegoat instead of acknowledging his own guilt, things will never get better.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
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  5. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    No, we made ourselves imperfect... When the Lord created humanity we were 'good' :D

    Also in the view that suffering is a result of the Lord's actions, then the converse is true that relief and goodness/joy/happiness/etc. is a result of Lord's actions.

    So either the Lord does not cause human suffering or He does indeed relieve human suffering.
     
  6. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    As long as one keeps waiting for God to do it, nothing will change. Its God's will that we act as mature, responsible creatures and cleap up our own mess. Here whil many have been sleeping God's Messenger has not returned just once, but three times since Christ. And the latest of those messages says the Temple HAS come in the Temple of Man, and mankind will just have to break a sweat and fulfill the Kingdom himself.

    Waiting for God to do it is the worst kind of moral turpitude IN MY OWN OPINION.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
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  7. standing_alone

    standing_alone Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I agree. I think humankind should be doing somthing to alleviate suffering. No disagreement there.

    Hey, that's just what I was taught in Sunday School. I don't believe in either, so I don't really care. I was just making a statement based off of what my previous church preached. I don't think it's a stupid idea, it's just an idea different from your own.

    So, then Satan doesn't exist? And if man screwed up on his own and was created by God as perfect, how did man screw up? If man is perfect, how could he screw up? Unless God messed up and didn't make man perfect?
     
  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    HaShem does or allows all things good, bad, and neutral.
    But He tells us where there is wrong doing it is up to us to act and not to stand by when evil is being done...

    Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou bear witness in a cause to turn aside after a multitude to pervert justice;
    Exodus 23:2
    darkness exists in this world that we might transform it into light.
    When you have the ability to be proactive that is when you should be,
    sadly not all of us live up to this ideal, myself included.
     
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  9. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    God has no equals nor partners. Satan "exists" as the call inside every human that would sway that person to NOT do what is morally correct and do what is selfish. Satan is intensely personal - he resides in you and a separate satan resides in me.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  10. standing_alone

    standing_alone Well-Known Member

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    So then Satan is not some seperate being? Just a certain aspect of our character? I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying. Just wondering if I understand you correctly. So, then God did not create man to be perfect then, but give them this "Satan" character trait? If not, where did this trait come from?
     
  11. mrscardero

    mrscardero Kal-El's Mama

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    I usually stop in to read some threads that I don't really look into, but I have to say Alyssa (standing_alone) is correct. It has nothing to do with the OP.

    Make a thread on what you have done to relieve human suffering.

    Nothing is worthless.

    I think if you are talking about what you have done, it should be you that has done more to relieve suffering. You did the action.
     
  12. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    God created man to CHOOSE to do good or not. A human becomes PERFECT by his own effort on this earth. What comes after and what role an individual's choices affect the judgement of an individual is up to God and the individual. This world is where we garner Godliness for our own efforts. To interfere with that effort and create us "perfect" would be silly. To create us and then sic a MONSTER EVIL on our collective and individual butts would also be pointless because our own efforts would not be the measure.

    "Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will."
    (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 248)

    "I beg of Thee, O my God, by Thy most exalted Word which Thou hast ordained as the Divine Elixir unto all who are in Thy realm, the Elixir through whose potency the crude metal of human life hath been transmuted into purest gold, O Thou in Whose hands are both the visible and invisible kingdoms, to ordain that my choice be conformed to Thy choice and my wish to Thy wish, that I may be entirely content with that which Thou didst desire, and be wholly satisfied with what Thou didst destine for me by Thy bounteousness and favor. Potent art Thou to do as Thou willest. Thou, in very truth, art the All-Glorious, the All-Wise.
    (Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 53)

    Regards,
    Scott
     
  13. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    You may think that is the real question; however, it is NOT the question posed in the topic of this thread.
     
  14. standing_alone

    standing_alone Well-Known Member

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    Okay, that makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

    So is it only action that determines perfection or thought as well? Because the church I was brought up in taught that if you thought about committing a sin, it was just as bad and sinful as actually acting out the sin. And can anyone really be perfect, since we all do bad as well as good? Or does God just accept an individual on the basis of the severity of their imperfection? Sorry for asking so many questions, this is just a very interesting view on the matter that I rarely encounter.
     
  15. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Who says He hasn't started already?
    But I'm quite sure retrorich meant it on a global and eternal perspective.
     
  16. SCIRLIN

    SCIRLIN Member

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    if you dont believe in God you will burn in hell with satan!
     
  17. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    how does this contribute constructively to the conversation
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Isn't it about time that God did something to relieve human suffering ?....

    I would advocate that a lot of human suffering is self inflicted. Now before anyone rushes to print a 'go' at me, obviously I am not including hunger, desperation, diease, torture...the whole gammut of human suffering which is unavoidable.

    The suffering I am talking about is that which people bring upon themselves, through greed (trying to earn more and more to feed ever increasing needs)......well, we all know about the 'keep up with the Jones's in the West. That suffering is of their own making, and the solution is in their own hands.

    As to the rest of the world, that is a different story.

    You, Rich, ask the question to theists, from an atheist point of view (which is quite natural and fair), and not unexpected.

    I might even agree with you, and consider 'God' to be a thoroughly 'unfair' deity if it was not for the fact that I believe in reincarnation, freedom to choose Good or to do bad, in our own life.

    If it was not for the poor, and the hurt, the hungry, the helpless (and believe me, I never stop thinking about them), there would be no room for people to do great unselfish deeds.

    I am thinking here of the Mother Theresa's; there are so many unsung heros and heroines. I cannot remember her name, but I am thinking of an English lady who went over to Iraq many, many years ago, converted to Islam, amd made the country her home. She spent her life helping everyone around; tried (within her limitations) to correct wrongs, and help all those she could. Unfortunately, despite her wonderfully unselfish life, she was taken hostage and killed........

    Dr Albert Schweitzer is another.......well, there are so many I could spend the rest of my life chasing names.

    Even Animals are not free from suffering (and in my book that is just as bad as human suffering - if not more so). There is a series running on Television about a couple of wild-life parks in England (and of course you have similar ones in the States) where animals are helped; those approaching extinction are steered to try and save them.

    Not far from where I live is 'monkey world' started by a couple who were disgusted to see chimps being abused whilst the couple were on holiday in Spain (I am not kicking Spain - it happens in a lot of places). That couple have devoted years to helping animals; they do without what we probably call necessities, but are in fact luxuries.

    As I say, I believe in reincarnation (And that somehow puts things into a better perspective, from my point of view. We all need to learn every lesson in life; we all need to experience every experience in life.

    I actually believe that we have an opportunity to choose our life on Earth (as souls) for the purpose of learning one particular lesson. (I am sincerely hoping that this life of mine is getting through some pretty nasty things I need to learn.)

    Without misery, there would be no opportunity for people to help the 'miserable'; if we were all happy, there would be no joy to feeling 'good'.

    Don't misunderstand me; I realise how well off I am (compared to probably 4/5ths of the world), and although this probably comes over as 'I am allright Jack', I promise that isn't the way I see it.

    God cannot (as in must not) interfere in human suffering; human suffering, the suffering of any living creature, plant, whatever, is all part of a very large scale learning curve. If he were to interfere, he would be ruining our chances to prove ourselves good.

    Well, such is my belief.
     
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  19. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Either "God" can't or won't relieve human suffering, therefore it is up to humankind to do it ourselves. We must each take the responsibilty for making the world a better place and stop waiting for some invisible deity to do it for us.
     
  20. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Why not both?
    Why do most people make it an either/or type of scenerio?
     
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