Isn't Chiristianity actually of TWO Bibles?

[charles brough]

We all know there is a vast difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The older one is the Judaic Bible. It recounts the history of an historically obscure, monotheistic tribe which, in Numbers, Deuteronomy and other parts describes their invasions and slaughtering of the men women and children of the lands they stole.

In comparison to the brutal Judaic Bible, the New Testament is generally a beacon of pragrance and light---even though, of course, there are exceptions. Being only half as ancient and hence that much less out-of-date, the offensive parts are much less in number: such as the admonitions to hate your family (Luke 14:26), Kill Jesus's enemies (Luke 19:27 and Math. 10:34), regarding dealing with slaves (Eph 6:5) and the subjection of women (1Tim 2:11-12).

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

 

[charles brough]

My theory is that every successful mainstream religion or ideology must answer the question "where did we come from?" In time of the Roman Empire, the Judaic version of the Babylonian creation myth was the most advanced of the times. The whole vicious trash in the early chapters of the Judaic bible had to be incorporated because of Genesis. The issue of origins is so important to a belief system that it marks the main division between Christian dogma and the Secular Humanist answer of evolution.

 

[Tristesse]

We all know there is a vast difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The older one is the Judaic Bible. It recounts the history of an historically obscure, monotheistic tribe which, in Numbers, Deuteronomy and other parts describes their invasions and slaughtering of the men women and children of the lands they stole.

In comparison to the brutal Judaic Bible, the New Testament is generally a beacon of pragrance and light---even though, of course, there are exceptions. Being only half as ancient and hence that much less out-of-date, the offensive parts are much less in number: such as the admonitions to hate your family (Luke 14:26), Kill Jesus's enemies (Luke 19:27 and Math. 10:34), regarding dealing with slaves (Eph 6:5) and the subjection of women (1Tim 2:11-12).

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

The new testament sounds much more pleasant, until you realize that this idea of eternal torture for finite crimes arose from the new testament.

 

[Breathe]

The new testament sounds much more pleasant, until you realize that this idea of eternal torture for finite crimes arose from the new testament.

Is Hell really a Biblical concept, though? I don't think so.

My theory is that every successful mainstream religion or ideology must answer the question "where did we come from?" In time of the Roman Empire, the Judaic version of the Babylonian creation myth was the most advanced of the times.

This is a definite possibility.

Many polytheistic creation myths are quite complex.

Humans of the past, like many of now, don't like "I don't know" as an answer.

 

[Tristesse]

Is Hell really a Biblical concept, though? I don't think so.

I never claimed that it was, I thought we were talking about specific claims about the old and new testament. The old testament is relatively silent about the afterlife, it's not until the new testament that you get a clearer, yet still ambigious view of the afterlife. Such as hell.

 

[Breathe]

I never claimed that it was, I thought we were talking about specific claims about the old and new testament.

That's not what I got.

Then, however, why did you mention Hell, if you know it's not a concept held within the Bible itself?

The old testament is relatively silent about the afterlife, it's not until the new testament that you get a clearer, yet still ambigious view of the afterlife. Such as hell.

I know. Despite not being Christian, I have read the Tanakh and New Testament.

However, I've not really seen any explicit doctrine that I believe refers to Hell the way it appears in Christian eschatology, other than "the lake of fire" of Revelation, which, it is worth noting, says "The Lake of Fire is the second death".

 

[outhouse]

We all know there is a vast difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The older one is the Judaic Bible. It recounts the history of an historically obscure, monotheistic tribe which, in Numbers, Deuteronomy and other parts describes their invasions and slaughtering of the men women and children of the lands they stole.

In comparison to the brutal Judaic Bible, the New Testament is generally a beacon of pragrance and light---even though, of course, there are exceptions. Being only half as ancient and hence that much less out-of-date, the offensive parts are much less in number: such as the admonitions to hate your family (Luke 14:26), Kill Jesus's enemies (Luke 19:27 and Math. 10:34), regarding dealing with slaves (Eph 6:5) and the subjection of women (1Tim 2:11-12).

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

yes it is part of the christian heritage no matter how you slice it.

christianity is just a branch of judaism


to know the branch you must know the whole tree.


I have seen many christians cherry pick the OT when they want to prove a point. So the whole book is used to this day.

 

[Tarheeler]

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

Because the Tanakh contains all of the prophecies Christians claim Jesus fulfills. If they reject it, then they must also reject the prophecies.

christianity is just a branch of judaism

It ceased being a branch of Judaism when its followers rejected the basic premises of Judaism and declared Jesus God.

 

[Photonic]

Is Hell really a Biblical concept, though? I don't think so.





This is a definite possibility.

Many polytheistic creation myths are quite complex.

Humans of the past, like many of now, don't like "I don't know" as an answer.

Well, hell is a concept introduced to Christianity during the Dark Ages to control the poor, uneducated masses.

 

[Breathe]

Well, hell is a concept introduced to Christianity during the Dark Ages to control the poor, uneducated masses.

Whilst it was a concept used to control the uneducated, I do not believe it was 'introduced'. Yes, it evolved as we know it today during the Middle Ages.

Too often people seem to hold this idea that seems to portray a few intellectuals sitting around a table and coming up with ideas. This isn't how religious concepts develop, and to think that would be plausible would be silly. I'm not saying that is your idea however, Photonic.

IMHO, it is more probable that it appeared from a heavily apocalyptical teaching which focused on the book of Revelation, possibly with some Islamic influence (Hell is a big thing in Islam). Not to mention the translation of the Bible was predominantly Latin as opposed to Greek, and the Latin translation of the NT uses "infernus" all the time, whereas there is a distinction between the concepts in the NT.

It seems more likely it was mistranslated, and that mistranslation was nurtured and over-emphasised when there was not much knowledge of it being correct.

Just my opinion, however.

 

[outhouse]

Because the Tanakh contains all of the prophecies Christians claim Jesus fulfills. If they reject it, then they must also reject the prophecies.



It ceased being a branch of Judaism when its followers rejected the basic premises of Judaism and declared Jesus God.

its still a branch of judaism because christians still use believe and follow the OT which is judaism.



the only way it would not be a branch of judaism is if christians discounted the OT

fact is even jesus said do not discount the old covenant OT

 

[Tarheeler]

its still a branch of judaism because christians still use believe and follow the OT which is judaism.



the only way it would not be a branch of judaism is if christians discounted the OT

fact is even jesus said do not discount the old covenant OT

That might be true if they had followed what Jesus is claimed to have said rather that what Paul said. There are extremely few Christian groups that follow the Torah, and most do discount it. At least everything that they don't use to try to paint Jesus as the messiah.

 

[idav]

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

IDK. I just remember getting that book passed around that only had the NT and maybe the book of proverbs from the OT. Totally left out all the best stories.

 

[outhouse]

That might be true if they had followed what Jesus is claimed to have said rather that what Paul said. There are extremely few Christian groups that follow the Torah, and most do discount it. At least everything that they don't use to try to paint Jesus as the messiah.

most christian faiths I know still hold the 10 commandments as true and the story of noah is known knowledge. they do not follow paul over jesus. paul is just added theology.

no matter how you slice it all christian churches still have the whole bible in them and not just the NT and they quote from the OT.


because you want, or you see, does not disount that the OT is still a large part of the christian faith.

 

[Tarheeler]

most christian faiths I know still hold the 10 commandments as true and the story of noah is known knowledge. they do not follow paul over jesus. paul is just added theology.

no matter how you slice it all christian churches still have the whole bible in them and not just the NT and they quote from the OT.


because you want, or you see, does not disount that the OT is still a large part of the christian faith.

They follow ten out of 613 commandments, and use some of the same mythology. Yep, they must be Jews....


Judaism does have branches; Orthodox, Reform, and Conservative are some some of them. Just like the Catholics and Protestants are branches of Christianity. They retain the major doctrines and practices of the parent, but they have enough differences to warrant classification. It doesn't matter if the Christians use the OT or if their religion was once a sect of Judaism; it has changed enough that it is a separate religion with its own scriptures and practices that are drastically different from Judaism.

 

[Tarheeler]

We all know there is a vast difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The older one is the Judaic Bible. It recounts the history of an historically obscure, monotheistic tribe which, in Numbers, Deuteronomy and other parts describes their invasions and slaughtering of the men women and children of the lands they stole.

In comparison to the brutal Judaic Bible, the New Testament is generally a beacon of pragrance and light---even though, of course, there are exceptions. Being only half as ancient and hence that much less out-of-date, the offensive parts are much less in number: such as the admonitions to hate your family (Luke 14:26), Kill Jesus's enemies (Luke 19:27 and Math. 10:34), regarding dealing with slaves (Eph 6:5) and the subjection of women (1Tim 2:11-12).

Since there is this vast difference between the two Bibles, why is the Jewish Bible considered part of the Christian Scripture?

I think they have been separated, at least to a point. I've never caught a Jew putting a Christian OT on the same level as the Torah, and most Christians I know read passages from my Jewish Study Bible with a look of total dismay.While they started out as the same Book, there's been enough changes in interpretations and doctrine to separate them. The Torah is Jewish; the Old Testament is Christian.
Even though much of the two are the same, they are viewed in very different ways.

The points you use in your post are a good example; many Christians, or those raised Christian, often see nothing but violence and rules in the Tanakh. But Jews see poetry, endless compassion, and stories of hope and love.

I don't think Christianity can completely divorce the two Bibles; it has based the nature of Jesus and the basic tenets on Tanakh. But it has changed the way the its adherents read and understand the Jewish Bible.

 

[outhouse]

They follow ten out of 613 commandments, and use some of the same mythology. Yep, they must be Jews....


Judaism does have branches; Orthodox, Reform, and Conservative are some some of them. Just like the Catholics and Protestants are branches of Christianity. They retain the major doctrines and practices of the parent, but they have enough differences to warrant classification. It doesn't matter if the Christians use the OT or if their religion was once a sect of Judaism; it has changed enough that it is a separate religion with its own scriptures and practices that are drastically different from Judaism.

they worship the same god, in christians eyes.

they read from the same book.



ya I see how you feel the need to classify them as night and day different

And I never claimed christians were jewish. No matter how you slice it christians and hebrews and islam are all from the same tree of a abrahamic deity.

 

[Tarheeler]

they worship the same god, in christians eyes.

they read from the same book.



ya I see how you feel the need to classify them as night and day different

And I never claimed christians were jewish. No matter how you slice it christians and hebrews and islam are all from the same tree of a abrahamic deity.

Same God, different religions.

It isn't that hard to figure out.

 

[the-jesusist]

Most Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah of the Jews. Jews will tell you otherwise. Jesus was born a Jew, but he was a rebel. He criticized Jewish leaders and Jewish customs. He was prosecuted and killed by Jews. Why Christians hold onto the OT is hard to understand, since the God of the OT seems to be entirely different from the God Jesus describes.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Same God, different religions.

It isn't that hard to figure out.

Pretty much.



YHVH bless us all.