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Featured Islam's relationship with Sikhism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ronki23, May 5, 2019.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why parts of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib have been written by Muslims when:

    1) Guru Arjun Dev was killed by Muslims for refusing to convert to Islam
    2) Guru Tegh Bahadur saved Kashmiri pandits and was killed by Aurangzeb for this
    3) Baba Deep Singh was killed in battle with Muslims after they attacked and desecrated Harmandir Sahib
    4) Banda Singh Bahadur was executed by Muslims
    5) Guru Gobind Singh's two sons were bricked in alive by Muslims and Guru Gobind Singh himself was stabbed by Muslims
     
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  2. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Why did the Mughals do this when Sri Guru Granth Sahib was partly composed by Muslims?
     
  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Islaam's history is littered with serious episodes of warfare between Muslims, despite a strong insistence that such should not happen. I understand that it is a difficult matter for Muslims to discuss among themselves, let alone with non-Muslims.

    Trying to put myself on their shoes while at the same time considering what I have learned of what actually happened and happens, I have to assume that, typically, they end up concluding that such conflicts would not have happened if they were "better Muslims", and that the blame is assigned more-or-less automatically to an incomplete or imperfect understanding of God's will as communicated by way of the Qur'an.

    You know the line: "The religion is perfect, but the people who implement it are not".

    If nothing else, we have to accept that historically it has been fairly commonplace for communities that considered themselves Muslims to not have that self-image agreed on by other Muslims, let alone to be spared from hostilities for that reason. Perhaps as a reaction to that, there is currently also a strong taboo against casually saying that other people are not true Muslims - it seems to be perceived as a deeply rude statement, or even an outright hostile one.

    As for how the Muslim authors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and their fellow non-Muslim Sikhs dealt with that reality, I can only assume that they decided to trust the judgement of God (as they understood it) even if they had to be rejected by other people.

    At the end of the day, the respect and fraternity towards other Muslims just isn't all that automatic in practice.
     
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  4. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    I think my question should be the other way around;

    "If Sikhism had influences from Islam then why did the Muslims kill so many Sikhs?"
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    As an aside, can anyone here recommend something about the nature and extent of Islamic influence in Sikhism?
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The writings on his "Chola-Sahib" or his "Long-Coat" or the "Holy Robe" tell us/testifies that its founder Baba Guru-Nanak-Sahib became a Muslim and died as such.

    Regards

    ____________

    upload_2019-5-6_9-59-6.jpeg
    "The chola itself is extremely curious. One may think that the chola will be identified with Hindu and Sikh scriptures. But a look at the Chola shows that it has verses from the holy Koran handwritten all over it. The Chola accepts Muhammad as the messenger of god and has quotations from the Koran on it. With the passage of time the writings are dimmed but enough evidence is available that the chola eulogises Koran and Muhammad."
    Gurudwara Chola Sahib and the Sacred Robe of Nanak at Dera Baba Nanak
     
  7. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    How many battles did the Sikhs have against the Mughals and how many did they win?
     
  8. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

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    It's remarkable that a religion would include in their scripture the writings of holy men in another religion that was an enemy. We should all be so virtuous that we can see a person for what he/she is, not what groups or categories they belong to.
     
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  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The question is, did Baba Guru Nanak Ji name the religion Sikhs believe?
    If yes, then please quote from him.
    Anybody, please

    Regards
     
  10. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    You could ask the same question about Christians and Jews.
    Short answer: people are often irrational, especially in the name of dogma they believe is infallibly given by God.
     
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  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I will be giving here the script written on the "Chola-Sahib" or the "Long-Coat" or the "Holy Robe" of Baba Nanik Ji. All script is in Arabic and one of them reads exactly:

    " لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله‎ "
    "lā ilāha illā -llāh, muḥammadur rasūlu -llāh.
    There is no god but Allah, [and] Muhammad is the messenger of Allah."

    Baba Nanik Ji was given this coat by G-d, I understand, that is what the Sikhs believe.
    No comments needed by me, it is evident. Right, please?

    Regards
     
    #11 paarsurrey, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  12. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    And here I was thinking this was going to be a comparative theology thread (which excited me, cause I love Sikhism and they have the same God as us, identical, which exception to prophetology which doesn't matter).
    But RF never lets you down with threads like this :tearsofjoy:
     
    #12 Firemorphic, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  13. Unguru

    Unguru I am a Sikh nice to meet you

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    I don't really get the question, Sikhism and Islam are separate but Islam is part of Sikhism. There is no Sikhism without Islam. Muslims are our brothers, Hindus are our brothers, no other word needs to be said.
    As a Sikh, I really don't care what happened 200 years ago, it's about the now.
    I have yet to meet a Muslim that has been anything other than respectful to me as a Sikh.
     
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  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I give here another writing on the "Chola-Sahib" or the "Long-Coat" or the "Holy Robe" of Baba Nanik Ji. It is in Arabic and reads exactly:

    [​IMG]
    Ash-hadu Al-laaa Ilaaha Illa-llaahu Wahdahoo Laa Shareeka Lahoo Wa-Ash-hadu Anna Muhammadan ‘Abduhoo Wa Rasooluhu.

    I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger.
    This is called Kalima Shahadah in Islam.

    No comments needed by me, it is evident. Right, please?

    Regards
    ____________
    The facsimile of the "Holy Robe" or Chola Sahib of Baba Nanik Ji:
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Except the Sikhs suffered in the partition 72 years ago- they made the most sacrifices for India and thousands were killed by Muslims when they went from Pakistan to India
     
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  16. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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  17. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    @ronki23

    Kabir , made similar declarations

    When the bride is one with her lover,
    who cares about the wedding party?
    Neither a Hindu, nor a Muslim am I!
    I am this body, a play
    Of five elements, a drama
    Of the spirit dancing
    With joy and sorrow.
     
  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    On the right arm of the Chola Sahib is written:

    إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ
    Surely the true religion with ALLAH is Islam.
    وَ لَوۡ کَرِہَ الۡکٰفِرُوۡنَ
    even if the disbelievers hate it.
    لَّا يَمَسُّهُ إِلَّا الْمُطَهَّرُونَ
    Which none shall touch except those who are purified.
    _____________

    Regards
     
  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    True enough. But there is a significant, unique relationship between Islaam and Sikhism. One worth exploring and attempting to understand.
     
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  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I give here another writing on the "Chola-Sahib" or the "Long-Coat" or the "Holy Robe" of Baba Nanik Ji, it is on the chest of the same:

    [1:1]
    بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾
    In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
    [[1:2]
    اَلۡحَمۡدُ لِلّٰہِ رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ۙ﴿۲﴾
    All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
    [[1:3]
    الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ ۙ﴿۳﴾
    The Gracious, the Merciful,
    [[1:4]
    مٰلِکِ یَوۡمِ الدِّیۡنِ ؕ﴿۴﴾
    Master of the Day of Judgment.
    [[1:5]
    اِیَّاکَ نَعۡبُدُ وَ اِیَّاکَ نَسۡتَعِیۡنُ ؕ﴿۵﴾
    Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
    [[1:6]
    اِہۡدِ نَا الصِّرَاطَ الۡمُسۡتَقِیۡمَ ۙ﴿۶﴾
    Guide us in the right path —
    [[1:7]
    صِرَاطَ الَّذِیۡنَ اَنۡعَمۡتَ عَلَیۡہِمۡ ۬ۙ غَیۡرِ الۡمَغۡضُوۡبِ عَلَیۡہِمۡ وَ لَا الضَّآلِّیۡنَ ٪﴿۷﴾
    The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah
    It is the whole first Chapter of Quran named Fatihah.

    It needs no further comments.

    Regards

    ______________

    [​IMG]
     
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