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islamic......

maro

muslimah
i am starting this thread to ask : what deserves the title " islamic "


dose the word islamic refer to what muslims do in a certain country ,or the culture of muslims somewhere which makes them distinct from other people ?


to be more clear ,
if some muslims decided to constuct a factory for wine or a gambling club , will we call it islamic wine or islamic gambling :eek:


if some muslim women ,somewhere, have a certain make up style , will we call it islamic make up ?


again , what deserves to be called "islamic " ? and is islam a religion or culture ?
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Islam is clearly a religion.

I think the term Islamic can be used to describe anything that identifies a person as Muslim.

My family name, for example, is Islamic. So is the habit I have of leaving my shoes outside and wearing slippers in the house. So is the way my grandmother barbecues. So is the way my sister wears her eyeliner. None of these things are based in Islam, but all of them instantly identify us as Muslims so I see no problem in calling them Islamic.

It's more complicated than in other countries, perhaps. In Egypt, you can simply call all these things Egyptian - but that doesn't work in Bosnia and Herzegovina, nor in Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, or Albania. To say something is "Bosnian" or "Albanian" implies that all Bosnians and all Albanians exhibit this trait or habit, and they don't.

Celebrating Muhammed's birthday, for example, is not a part of Islam - but here it is an Islamic practice, one that is carried out by Muslims and only by Muslims. Wearing a hijab is associated with Islam - but here it is not an Islamic practice because most Muslims don't wear one and, additionally, a vast majority of the elderly Muslim and Christian women do.

So, as I said, I use the term Islamic to describe anything that identifies a person as Muslim - whether it is religious or cultural.

I use the terms "Christian" and "Jewish" in the same way.

This song, for example, I would describe as Christian because it's performed in the same vocal style you'd hear at a Orthodox Church here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Iva5Jru7jc
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
I have something to add.

It also differs between regions. In Sarajevo, for example, it is not possible to say for certain that a person is Muslim simply because they say masala (Masha'Allah). It's a habit that many Christians born and raised before the war have as well. So you couldn't say that masala is an Islamic term in Sarajevo - you also couldn't call it Bosnian, it's clearly an Arabic term.

A few hours away in Novi Pazar, a Bosnian Muslim city located in southern Serbia, it's different. There only devout Muslims would even dream of saying masala - it's not a common, everyday expression as it is in Sarajevo. You could call it an Islamic term because if someone there says it you can be absolutely certain they are Muslim. And, again, you couldn't call it a Serbian term - it's still Arabic, and a vast majority of Serbians have probably never even heard of it.

Then we have wedding caravans. In some regions of Bosnia and Herzegovina, brides were traditionally buried beneath heavy veils and transported by a caravan - sort of a happy, musical parade - to their husband's home prior to the wedding. These caravans were used only by Muslims, so we can call them a traditional Islamic practice in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

A few hours away in Albania, caravans were a normal part of weddings for Muslim, Orthodox Christian, and Roman Catholic couples in the regions where they existed. There it wouldn't be possible to describe them as an Islamic practice because the use of a caravan wasn't specific to Muslims. You also couldn't call it an Albanian practice because many regions of Albanians have never seen a caravan.

If you go a few more hours east to Turkey, and you never need to use the term Islamic at all. 99.9 per cent of Turks are Muslim so everything they do can be described as Turkish. The same is true for much of the Arab world but such a luxury simply doesn't exist in the Balkans.
 
Islam is the religion which focuses on the human submission to Allah . The term Islam itself derives from two different roots, one which means submission and the other which means peace. A person enters Islam by saying the Shahada. Approximately 80% of Moslems follow the Sunni Islam line, while something over 15% are Shiite. According to Islam, Allah is the god of the Jews and the Christians--indeed, many Jewish and Christian figures are considered Islamic prophets , such as Abraham, Jesus--but Mohammed supposedly is the final prophet, who supposedly managed to bring to humanity the complete and true understanding of Allah.
 

EiNsTeiN

Boo-h!
I think that ''Islamic'' is only related to the religion ''islam'', and not to a specific culture..I totally don't agree with you Mila in this issue, and I can't call any thing Islamic just because those who do it are muslims...
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
EiNsTeiN said:
I think that ''Islamic'' is only related to the religion ''islam'', and not to a specific culture..I totally don't agree with you Mila in this issue, and I can't call any thing Islamic just because those who do it are muslims...

I'm not surprised, really - you can simply say Egyptian. I can't.

The term Muslim also has a single meaning in Egypt, it doesn't here. You can be Muslim in the religious sense - for example, Muslim in both these sentences means the same thing:

I am a Muslim from Bosnia. I am a Muslim from Egypt.

Or you can be Muslim in the ethnic sense - for example, the words in italics in both these sentences refer to an ethnic group:

I am a Bosnian Muslim. I am an African American.

You can say, for example, that many forms of music - rap and hip/hop for example - are African American forms of music. You can also say that many forms of music - sevdahlinka, for example - are Bosnian Muslim forms of music.

I just don't understand why no one seems capable of realizing that Muslim is both a religious and ethnic label in some countries.

I'm a Bosnian Muslim, FVM is, I believe, an Arab American. Jennifer Lopez is a Hispanic American...

All the things you associate with being an Arab or Hispanic American - music, fashion, traditional occupations, cuisine, slang language, etc... the term Muslim in Bosnia is an ethnic term that carries all these associations as well.

I realize it's complicated but, my God... it's not so complicated that you people can't just say, "Oh! I get it!" and leave me alone.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
It was even a part of census taking in the region.

For example, if you lived in Novi Pazar and were filling out your census, under the option of "Nationality" (our equivalent of "race"), you had the following options:

Serb by Nationality
Montenegrin by Nationality
Muslim by Nationality
Albanian by Nationality
Roma (Gypsy) by Nationality
Croat by Nationality

The number of people who declared themselves as Muslim by Nationality accounted for 94 per cent in the city of Tutin, for example. The same year, the number of people who said that Islam was their RELIGION was less than 70 per cent.

They're two different things and I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
EiNsTeiN said:
Oh! I get it! :D

I think it's just your country's perspective, but not a general rule to be taken..

God bless you. :D I could cry I'm so... that was better than chocolate, and something else I won't dare mention in Maro's thread.

It isn't just my country but it is specific to the Balkans as far as I'm aware - though I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar in Asia, for example India.

So that's the two meanings of Muslim here sorted away.

As for the general use of Islamic, I think it's fairly common around the world. I've seen classes for Islamic dance (belly dancing) in Norway, I've seen concerts advertised as Islamic music (Arabian pop music) in Austria. It's obviously different in the Middle East but I think you might have to leave the house more if you think the only thing described as "Islamic" in the world is the Koran.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Djamila said:
My family name, for example, is Islamic. So is the habit I have of leaving my shoes outside and wearing slippers in the house. So is the way my grandmother barbecues. So is the way my sister wears her eyeliner. None of these things are based in Islam, but all of them instantly identify us as Muslims so I see no problem in calling them Islamic.

I understand why you identify these things as "islamic" in your country for the reasons you mentioned, but i believe that it's not proper to call these things "islamic" in here with us, because when you say "islamic" in your country it will mean somthing, but here when people see you saying "islamic" for things which has nothing to do with Islam, is totally somthing else, because they will think that these things are part of "Islam".

Like this ....

Djamila said:
I've seen classes for Islamic dance (belly dancing) in Norway

What is the relationship between (belly dancing) and Islam?

My fiance is a Norwegian but she is an Arab too --her father is a Palestinian and her mother is Norwegian-- and she told me about this "belly dancing" thing in Norway, but she never identfied it as "Islamic". Are you sure they call it "Islamic belly dancing" in Norway, Mila?
 

maro

muslimah
Djamila said:
God bless you. :D I could cry I'm so... that was better than chocolate, and something else I won't dare mention in Maro's thread.

:biglaugh: , i'll take this as a praise Mila ;) , May Allah bless you :)
 
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