Islamic sufism - is it a realistic path for everyday life?

[Sha'irullah]

@Sha'irullah -- I'm listening to that video clip...that guy is GREAT. Why don't you like him? Listening now. He is saying go to the real people of knowledge to learn about the religion. (Islam) ... He's funny, I like his humor!

He said there are too many people who think they know everything, etc...lol

I wish I knew Arabic.

He says stuff that can be very Salafist at times. He is also a Deobandi sympathizer. The Deobandi movement is the movement responsible for the Taliban who are the pinnacle of the Deobandi movement. It is like saying you are a Nazi sympathizer and just like them because they banned smoking.

By the way, a lot of what this guy saying is not Arabic lol. Ever heard of Urdu woman!
Urdu is written using the Arabic alphabet by the way and has a lot of Arabic loan words in it to

 

[Spiderman]

You're right, yes. It might sound selfish, but...I felt a sense of betrayal from Christianity. So I left it, and I just can't go through that again. I don't believe that any one religion could hold absolute truth, but there is something very different and appealing about Islam. And the STRUGGLE of Islam. I just want to make sure I go into it with eyes open, as opposed to the way Christianity was brought into my life as a kid, when I had no say in it. Now, I have a say.

@SaintMatthew -- thank you for that nice post above. I saw it, and meant to quote it. You know, I could just wear a long skirt, long sleeve shirt, and buy a head scarf, like the girl in the pic. (for prayers) I hadn't thought of that. I like that. And you are right, it is a matter of emptying one's self ...of self.

All of the religions boil down to that, I guess, yes?

well I never ever thought I would be encouraging somebody in a conversion to Islam, but I am in this case because I don't believe you would ever be okay with stoning adulterers and homosexuals.

and yes you would look very pure in Arab style clothing.

 

[Deidre]

Nobody really knows the actual Muhammad. When I make fun of Muhammad I am making fun of the textual Muhammad. I said this last year ago on a thread about whether Muhammad was a bad person. Muhammad had good intentions but he used religion which at that time is great. He did not know that people after him would use him religion to solidify governments and societies down to economics. Point to me Christian economics, Christian baking, Christian marriages, Christian dining or Christian ideology. No manual for it exist that is deemed prophetic. You have church manuals but not seemingly divine ones.
Islam has all this plus more. Everything is legalistic.

If you wish to know more about this read the short book by Ali Dashti 23 years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad. It is a short book that gives a scholarly analysis on Muhammad. Dashti was an Iranian and for the most part an Atheist . . . and a Muslim which is perhaps the biggest contradiction of all time. He admired Muhammad and heavily criticized his history.

Yes!! This is exactly what I feel about Muhammed. How does anyone knew what happened after he died? Just like after Jesus died, I believe the story was entirely concocted to attach divinity to him, in order to 'create' a religion that could control the masses. But, you put it so well. He had good intentions, I believe this, based on all I have read on my own.

 

[Deidre]

well I never ever thought I would be encouraging somebody in a conversion to Islam, but I am in this case because I don't believe you would ever be okay with stoning adulterers and homosexuals.

and yes you would look very pure in Arab style clothing.

haha Aw. I want to cry. I'm a ways off from making such a decision, but...I feel (other than the language barrier) like I fit here. Idk. We will see.
Um, no I won't be stoning anyone haha I hope you can see that those violent groups are not the essence of Islam. They are anything but. But, in a strange way, I have compassion for them...for they are so lost. They are the worst kind of lost. Because they are being used by the leaders of their group for the leaders agendas, and yet they think they are following Allah. (although some might be willing participants) It's really sad, ISIS ...even if they took over the whole world, they would still have lost. That is what they don't understand. And that is sad to me. Pray for them.

 

[nazz]

If you want a very different take on the Qur'an I suggest you read Heart of the Qur'an by Lex Hixon. It is not a translation and does not pretend to be. It's more like a Sufi meditation on the words:

Amazon.com: The Heart of the Qur'an: An Introduction to Islamic Spirituality (9780835608220): Lex Hixon, Neil Douglas-Klotz: Books

 

[nazz]

Yes!! This is exactly what I feel about Muhammed. How does anyone knew what happened after he died? Just like after Jesus died, I believe the story was entirely concocted to attach divinity to him, in order to 'create' a religion that could control the masses. But, you put it so well. He had good intentions, I believe this, based on all I have read on my own.

Well In mainstream Islam Muhammad is not divinized. That would be shirk. When Muhammad died his successor said, "If you worship Muhammad, Muhammad is dead. If you worship Allah, Allah lives forever". But in some sufi sects, notably those which arose in the Shi'a world, Muhammad does almost become divine.

 

[nazz]

Something else I can suggest to you Deidre. I don't know where you live but you can see if this is happening in your area. This was originally what got me into sufism:

Dances of Universal Peace, North America

 

[Deidre]

Sufism is what led me to embrace Islam. I think it is a good way to break into it gently so to speak.

Yes, this is an excellent point. Islam isn't something you just jump onto the path and there you go. It will take me some time to learn and grow with it, before I can make a decision as to conversion. The prayer life alone I'm having to get used to. I used to pray a lot when I was a Christian, but there is a strictness here that many Christian prayers didn't have. I will keep working on it...my goal is to get up to 5x daily, except...the first prayer is before sunrise.

 

[nazz]

Yes, this is an excellent point. Islam isn't something you just jump onto the path and there you go. It will take me some time to learn and grow with it, before I can make a decision as to conversion. The prayer life alone I'm having to get used to. I used to pray a lot when I was a Christian, but there is a strictness here that many Christian prayers didn't have. I will keep working on it...my goal is to get up to 5x daily, except...the first prayer is before sunrise.

I never quite made it to praying five days a day especially that before sunrise one! Our society is not really set up to support it. And truth be told many Muslims don't really pray five times a day either. It's a noble goal but don't sweat it. There is power in the prayer no matter how often you do it.

 

[nazz]

Oh, also you can attend a mosque without converting. In fact I never made a formal conversion. I was doing salat and other practices for a while before I got up the courage to go to a mosque.

 

[Job]

Sufism is a great aspect of Islam in my opinion. You have the orthodox Muslim Sufi's that abide by Islamic law and also the 20th century non-Islamic Sufism that has "grown out of it". Nevertheless originally Sufism did become part of Sunni Orthodoxy and has left alot of traces in almost all Muslim cultures.

Each Sufi order (tariqah) is based on certain principles and rituals specific to that order. What they often start with when your are initiated into it is that they give your a littany that you will have to read daily before your early morning prayer or after your evening prayer. The littany are basically a mix of Quran verses, prayers, supplications and often repeatedly calling God's names or praising him. The idea behind it is that doing this on a daily basis will increase your awareness of God and help you alot in your spiritual journey towards Allah. Often - if possible - Sufi orders meet once a week, mostly Thursdays, to come together and read together the Quran, do "dhikr" (loud chants in a group praising God) and have the Shaykh (teacher) giving a spiritual talk. On your path the Shaykh can also tell you to increase your devotional acts meaning you start with one daily littany but after that you increase it or them, or start each evening before going to sleep "meditating". Or saying 5000 times with a rosary "there is no god but God" (which is part of the Islamic testification of faith said by all Muslims).

The idea is that you increase your faith in such a way that eventually you only see God in His creation and everything around you. This is what is called "ihsan", or perfection of faith.

 

[Deidre]

I never quite made it to praying five days a day especially that before sunrise one! Our society is not really set up to support it. And truth be told many Muslims don't really pray five times a day either. It's a noble goal but don't sweat it. There is power in the prayer no matter how often you do it.

Agree-well said
I'm grateful to have found a site with both Arabic and English side by side, and this morning I prayed the Fajr. I tried in Arabic, but my main intention now is to get the right mindset back into place. I've missed prayer for a while now, it is the one thing that caused a void in me despite the fact that I had other convictions as an atheist. The prayers itself are repetitive, that I'm used to with certain prayers in Catholicism. The Fajr is quite a powerful prayer...it wakes you up in the morning, I will say that.

Oh, also you can attend a mosque without converting. In fact I never made a formal conversion. I was doing salat and other practices for a while before I got up the courage to go to a mosque.

My friends have asked me to go, I'm thinking it would be a great experience for me. Especially now since I'm considering this as my path, now. All those years, you never converted? Interesting.

Sufism is a great aspect of Islam in my opinion. You have the orthodox Muslim Sufi's that abide by Islamic law and also the 20th century non-Islamic Sufism that has "grown out of it". Nevertheless originally Sufism did become part of Sunni Orthodoxy and has left alot of traces in almost all Muslim cultures.

Each Sufi order (tariqah) is based on certain principles and rituals specific to that order. What they often start with when your are initiated into it is that they give your a littany that you will have to read daily before your early morning prayer or after your evening prayer. The littany are basically a mix of Quran verses, prayers, supplications and often repeatedly calling God's names or praising him. The idea behind it is that doing this on a daily basis will increase your awareness of God and help you alot in your spiritual journey towards Allah. Often - if possible - Sufi orders meet once a week, mostly Thursdays, to come together and read together the Quran, do "dhikr" (loud chants in a group praising God) and have the Shaykh (teacher) giving a spiritual talk. On your path the Shaykh can also tell you to increase your devotional acts meaning you start with one daily littany but after that you increase it or them, or start each evening before going to sleep "meditating". Or saying 5000 times with a rosary "there is no god but God" (which is part of the Islamic testification of faith said by all Muslims).

The idea is that you increase your faith in such a way that eventually you only see God in His creation and everything around you. This is what is called "ihsan", or perfection of faith.

Thank u so much for this! I like the idea very much of having my own mentor.

So, along with regular prayer, I can supplement with Sufism devotional time? (as you say before/after morning/evening prayer)

After a lot of reflection and being in somewhat of a fog for the past year, I feel so good these past few days of praying again. And reading the Qur’an, has brought me a sense of peace and fulfillment. It has been a very long time since I’ve felt a ''call'' to surrender to a ‘higher power,’ could that higher power be Allah? It may be. At any rate, the fog has finally been lifted. Perhaps in some of us, we are best suited for a spiritual life.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

Before I forget...Muhammed's companions helped to compile the Qur'an, yes? Do you think there was any tampering at all ...or any corruption...or anything added/subtracted from the Qur'an, in its final form? (ie: like the Gospels that were ''omitted'' from the Bible as we know it) This is a little sidetracked from the main topic here, but I just want to know for myself, if anyone thinks that.

The original Quran might have been compiled during Muhammad's time, but it is today lost. However the earliest is written by Uthman 19 years after Muhammad's death, he was a Sahaba.

The Quran was written down while Ali (a man who basically grew up with the Quran and said to have memorized the whole Quran) , Aisha, Abu Bakr were all still alive, as well as hundreds of other of Muhammad's companions, I'm pretty sure they would have said something or rebelled if the Quran was corrupted by Uthman, who was by the way a very pious Muslim, one who would die for Islam. There existed people who could recite the whole Quran, they brought those forth to help write down the Quran. I surely see a big historic inconsistency on when the Quran could have been distorted, it isn't like the Gospels that were written decades later, Quran was written mere 19 years later and with all the companions still alive. Reading about the history of the Sahaba, it would be a bit ludicrous to say they would do such a despicable act.

Most scholars agree on that the Quran is as it's always been. There is still nothing to support the otherwise claim.

 

[Smart_Guy]

What I know of Sufism is that it focuses more on the spirituality and even gives it some of the life's share. This could be good and bad at the same time, depending on the public opinion. The good is that it makes Sufi peaceful people that mostly focus on spirituality and stay away of many life matters more, and I believe that is what matters the most in the public opinion.

Just my $0.02

 

[Deidre]

What I know of Sufism is that it focuses more on the spirituality and even gives it some of the life's share. This could be good and bad at the same time, depending on the public opinion. The good is that it makes Sufi peaceful people that mostly focus on spirituality and stay away of many life matters more, and I believe that is what matters the most in the public opinion.

Just my $0.02

There seems to be less focus on the legalism of religion, and experiencing a more mystical approach to Islam. Thank you for this...To me, I'm getting a lot of out my readings of it.

@Zulk-Dharma --You mentioned today that you follow Sufism. My Muslim friends have mixed feelings on it, so it's only here that I can interact with people about it, and learn from them.


I found this quote tonight...

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

@Zulk-Dharma --You mentioned today that you follow Sufism. My Muslim friends have mixed feelings on it, so it's only here that I can interact with people about it, and learn from them.

Feel free to ask me any time.

 

[sun rise]

A Rumi poem I quite like:

Come, Come, Whoever You Are
Wonderer, worshipper, lover of leaving.
It doesn't matter.
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come, even if you have broken your vow

a thousand times
Come, yet again, come, come.

 

[Azycool]

Just like to add... The Quran is unchanged. There has been lots of research.. .the Mushaf was written afterwards. Sufism is Islam.. And Islam us Sufism.. There is no difference..only today.. People try to seperate. All the saints mentioned following the Shariat... But the beauty is....there is no extreme mortification required as in other others spiritual ways.. And obviously those whose inner eyes are open can see the Spirits protecting each letter of the Quran. And there is many saints.. Even nowadays known as Huzuri who can see and speak to the Prophet upon him be peace aswell the other Prophets upon them be peace.

 

[sun rise]

Just like to add... The Quran is unchanged. There has been lots of research.. .the Mushaf was written afterwards. Sufism is Islam.. And Islam us Sufism.. There is no difference..only today.. People try to seperate. All the saints mentioned following the Shariat... But the beauty is....there is no extreme mortification required as in other others spiritual ways.. And obviously those whose inner eyes are open can see the Spirits protecting each letter of the Quran. And there is many saints.. Even nowadays known as Huzuri who can see and speak to the Prophet upon him be peace aswell the other Prophets upon them be peace.

In India the Chishtiyya order is not restricted to Muslims and there are non-traditional sufi orders in the west which are not based on Islam. Hazrat Inayat Khan who brought sufism to the west had a prayer, Salat, which explicitly recognizes all the great ones of every religion:

Most gracious Lord, Master, Messiah and Savior of humanity,
We greet Thee with all Humility.
Thou art the First Cause and the Last Effect,
The Divine Light and the Spirit of Guidance,
Alpha and Omega.
Thy light is in all forms,
Thy Love in all beings:
In a loving mother, in a kind father,
In an innocent child, in a helpful friend,
In an inspiring teacher.
Allow us to recognize Thee
In all thy holy names and forms;
As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha.
Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra,
As Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammad,
And in many other names and forms,
Known and unknown to the world.
We adore Thy past;
Thy presence deeply enlightens our being,
And we look for Thy blessing in the future.
Oh Messenger, Christ, Nabi, the Rasul of God!
Thou whose heart constantly reaches upward,
Thou comest on earth with a message,
As a dove from above when Dharma decays,
And speakest the Word that is put into Thy mouth
As the light filleth the crescent moon.
Let the star of the Divine Light shining in Thy heart,
Be reflected in the hearts of Thy devotees.
May the Message of God reach far and wide,
Illuminating and making the whole of humanity
As one single family in the Parenthood of God.

 

[Zulk-Dharma]

In India the Chishtiyya order is not restricted to Muslims and there are non-traditional sufi orders in the west which are not based on Islam. Hazrat Inayat Khan who brought sufism to the west had a prayer, Salat, which explicitly recognizes all the great ones of every religion:

If they don't recognize the prophet or God of Islam, it's not really Sufism, Sufism is an esoteric understanding of Islam. They may be syncretic, but there exist no such thing as secular Sufism or atheist Muslim.