Islamic sufism - is it a realistic path for everyday life?

[Deidre]

I'm interested in exploring Islam in greater depth as a potential path for myself. Upon reading about Islamic Sufism, the mysticism of it seems so beautiful, and freeing. But, it is also a path that requires its followers to have strict adherence to the Qur'an, yes? I was reading that Sufism suggests finding a guide for one's self, and the guide will basically serve as a mentor. Is this required in order to follow Sufism?

Also, there seems to be pledges one makes of sexual abstinence, poverty, and fasting. I'm a former Christian, and this reminds me of what is required of certain orders of (Catholic) church clergy (priests and nuns)

Is it a realistic path for everyday life, for someone new to Islam? I find it to be the path I'm most attracted to right now, which is why I'm asking. Thank you in advance for any advice and insights.

 

[Spiderman]

Be your own Sufi. Not someone else's sufi! You don't need to follow someone else's rules. I'll be your sufi Guru Imam guy. Right now I order you to get a prayer rug and prayer beads.

And you must wear modest clothing. No short skirts you and you cant show cleavage!

In all seriousness Sufism is really groovy and far out! It is based on poverty of spirit, humility, and detachment from the world. The early Sufi's wore sheepskin and owned almost nothing. It is about an inner journey of overcoming yourself and finding intimacy with Mr. Allah and transformation of mind and heart. It is more internalized than other branches of Islam.

 

[Deidre]

Be your own Sufi. Not someone else's sufi! You don't need to follow someone else's rules. I'll be your sufi Guru Imam guy. Right now I order you to get a prayer rug and prayer beads.

And you must wear modest clothing. No short skirts you and you cant show cleavage!

In all seriousness Sufism is really groovy and far out! It is based on poverty of spirit, humility, and detachment from the world. The early Sufi's wore sheepskin and owned almost nothing. It is about an inner journey of overcoming yourself and finding intimacy with Mr. Allah and transformation of mind and heart. It is more internalized than other branches of Islam.

haha You will be my Sufi-guide?
That would be funny, indeed.

Hey, for the record, I dress pretty modestly, mister.

Yes, you are right...it is more of a spiritual/mystic approach to Islam, but I still think it's built around strict adherence to the Qur'an, which isn't a negative thing per se, I just want to make sure that if I make this effort...that I'm not going in halfway.

 

[Spiderman]

haha You will be my Sufi-guide?
That would be funny, indeed.

Hey, for the record, I dress pretty modestly, mister.

Yes, you are right...it is more of a spiritual/mystic approach to Islam, but I still think it's built around strict adherence to the Qur'an, which isn't a negative thing per se, I just want to make sure that if I make this effort...that I'm not going in halfway.

Ignore the passage about amputation of limbs my child.

Focus on the verses that speak of love, humility, modesty, purity, and prudence my child and work on presenting your self as an unblemished gem before the throne of Mr Allah!

Allah loves you little darlin! He love you like you're the only girl in the whole wide world!

Ill give you your Quran lessons and verses to chew on all day my little Persian princess!

Call me Imam Abdullah Matthew of the brightest side of Allah!

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm interested in exploring Islam in greater depth as a potential path for myself. Upon reading about Islamic Sufism, the mysticism of it seems so beautiful, and freeing. But, it is also a path that requires its followers to have strict adherence to the Qur'an, yes? I was reading that Sufism suggests finding a guide for one's self, and the guide will basically serve as a mentor. Is this required in order to follow Sufism?

Every Sufi must have a shaykh or instrutor because it is handed down knowledge. Many sufis like engaging in old games of alledgedly tracing down their instructors to Muhammad himself. As of today no Sufi shaykh has proved this and many turoq refuse to provide historical analysis on this. So in other words . . . it is a fraud mostly and this is why many Muslims condemn Sufi practices.

I would recommend you listen to Bilal Philips, Abdur Raheem Green or even Hasan Ali but they are on the uber fundie end. Raheem Green has toned down but still would bash Sufism and this offer many wrongs views and negativity.

Also, there seems to be pledges one makes of sexual abstinence, poverty, and fasting. I'm a former Christian, and this reminds me of what is required of certain orders of (Catholic) church clergy (priests and nuns)

Yep yep

Is it a realistic path for everyday life, for someone new to Islam? I find it to be the path I'm most attracted to right now, which is why I'm asking. Thank you in advance for any advice and insights.

Yes and no.

 

[Sha'irullah]

To hell with it. I am showing you this video. I do not like him but he still goes in depth about Sufism and its ACTUAL orthodoxy not the hippie garbage you read by "Spiritual People"

 

[Spiderman]

Deidre, little flower of Allah,

you must detach yourself from this fleeting world and the pleasure that doesn't satisfy. You must hunger and thirst for that which is eternal. Silver and gold and money loses its value and only buys you things that the moth eats and you cant take it with you.

Come out from the world and move to the bosom of your creator where you will find rest for your weary soul. Soar above this world little white and pure dove of Ishmael!

14:3 Those who love[istahib]the life of this world more than the Hereafter, who hinder (men) from the Path of Allah and seek therein something crooked: They are astray by a long distance.
16:107 This because they love [istahib] the life of this world better than the Hereafter: And Allah will not guide those who reject Faith.

75:20 Nay, (ye men!) But ye love [hubb] the fleeting life,

Fear Allah. All creation he has made and is in his palm. Fear not creation nor be attached to it.

 

[Deidre]

time to get my headphones
going to listen

 

[Deidre]

Before I forget...Muhammed's companions helped to compile the Qur'an, yes? Do you think there was any tampering at all ...or any corruption...or anything added/subtracted from the Qur'an, in its final form? (ie: like the Gospels that were ''omitted'' from the Bible as we know it) This is a little sidetracked from the main topic here, but I just want to know for myself, if anyone thinks that.

 

[sun rise]

I'm interested in exploring Islam in greater depth as a potential path for myself. Upon reading about Islamic Sufism, the mysticism of it seems so beautiful, and freeing. But, it is also a path that requires its followers to have strict adherence to the Qur'an, yes? I was reading that Sufism suggests finding a guide for one's self, and the guide will basically serve as a mentor. Is this required in order to follow Sufism?

Also, there seems to be pledges one makes of sexual abstinence, poverty, and fasting. I'm a former Christian, and this reminds me of what is required of certain orders of (Catholic) church clergy (priests and nuns)

Is it a realistic path for everyday life, for someone new to Islam? I find it to be the path I'm most attracted to right now, which is why I'm asking. Thank you in advance for any advice and insights.

There are many different Sufi orders List of Sufi orders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has what I think is an exhaustive list. As you might expect, their organization and focus can be quite different including whether or not they accept non-Muslims as students. And some of the things you wrote such as fasting are part of Islamic practice and not limited to sufis.

One explanation about how Islamic Sufism regards the Quran is the following. You'll see a key point about following the Quran is that sufis find different levels of meaning than the exoteric. The Verse of Light, Sura 24, verse 35 is called by Idres Shah in his book, The Sufis, as giving "the essence of sufism".

Levels of Meaning in Holy Scripture: The Holy Qur'an by Dr. Ali Duran

Ya Ali Madad:

Traditionally in the esoteric traditions, understanding of Quran is regarded from the perspective of the student, and is usually divided into 4 levels of understanding:

Shariat: Shariah is the exoteric level and is related to the level of quranic civil and religious law and literal understanding of the verses of Quran. this is the lever of the Zahir, or visible.

Tariqat: the "Path", is the beginning of the hidden or "batini" understanding of Quran. Sufi orders and Ismaili tariqat begin at this level. The hermeneutic interpretation, or "Tawil" (lit: to return to the first) of the Quran begins at this level. Understanding of the amthal, or metaphors and similies of the Quran on the physical, noetic and spiritual planes is stressed. The law is interpreted from this level and certain rules of the tariqa are established for the perfection of the postulant.

Maarifat: Maarifat is the station of "Irfan", or gnosis. Here the Arif (gnostic) understands the subtleties of the Quran and is inspired from the Malakut or angelic realms. Subtleties and indications of the Beloved are seen in the sensory and internal worlds.

Haqiqat: the fruit of maarifat, the arif becomes annihilated in al-Haqq, the Divine reality, and subsists only through the qudrat, or will of Allah. This is the station alluded to by the martyr Mansur al Hallaj when he was crucified and burned for saying, "ana il Haqq" I am the Truth. This is the Divine realm, the Sinai of Lovers where only the converse between the Lover and Beloved is undestood and the Quran is the point of the Bismillah, the Mole on the Cheek of the Beloved.

If I have erred in this brief discourse, the error is mine. In truth Allah knows best.

 

[Spiderman]

Before I forget...Muhammed's companions helped to compile the Qur'an, yes? Do you think there was any tampering at all ...or any corruption...or anything added/subtracted from the Qur'an, in its final form? (ie: like the Gospels that were ''omitted'' from the Bible as we know it) This is a little sidetracked from the main topic here, but I just want to know for myself, if anyone thinks that.

I heard the Angels guided them from error.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Before I forget...Muhammed's companions helped to compile the Qur'an, yes? Do you think there was any tampering at all ...or any corruption...or anything added/subtracted from the Qur'an, in its final form? (ie: like the Gospels that were ''omitted'' from the Bible as we know it) This is a little sidetracked from the main topic here, but I just want to know for myself, if anyone thinks that.

*cough coughs*
The amount of tampering in the Qur'an is about 80% honestly . In Arabic is is poorly compiled and written and has went through manscript changes along with the fact that Abu Bakr authorized the final compilation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an was written a few decades after Muhammad died and it was written from the companions of the prophet who professed that it was written from memory as is typical for Sadj poetry.

A lot of the Qur'an is disjointed and not compiled right as a whole. It is a wonderful read in Arabic but I will not kid myself in saying it is coherent. This is why tafsir exist in order to translate the thing. The tafsir are primarily pseudo historical on top of this and left in Arabic to avoid further translations. This goes even beyond my own knowledge and I studied heavily!

 

[Deidre]

*cough coughs*
The amount of tampering in the Qur'an is about 80% honestly . In Arabic is is poorly compiled and written and has went through manscript changes along with the fact that Abu Bakr authorized the final compilation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an was written a few decades after Muhammad died and it was written from the companions of the prophet who professed that it was written from memory as is typical for Sadj poetry.

A lot of the Qur'an is disjointed and not compiled right as a whole. It is a wonderful read in Arabic but I will not kid myself in saying it is coherent. This is why tafsir exist in order to translate the thing. The tafsir are primarily pseudo historical on top of this and left in Arabic to avoid further translations. This goes even beyond my own knowledge and I studied heavily!

Thank you! I'm glad I asked, I wanted to know this. So, when some people think that the prophet Muhammed was a bad person, maybe he delivered an untainted message that was tampered with, by others. Not entirely, but somewhat. This is the problem many have with the Bible. I like the fact that I don't need to worship Muhammed, he was a fallible man. Like us. A holy man, but a man. His story might be imperfect, it is a different story than I'm used to. In Christianity, there is so much need to paint the cast of characters as ''perfect,'' and ''sinless'' and in Jesus' case ''divine.'' If there is a god, and there may be one...there is only One. That is what I believe now, Sha.

 

[sun rise]

Also, there's the problem of translation. Some Suras of the Quran have been translated in wildly different ways although others are reasonably close.

WebQT - ©2003 Submission.org is the source I use when I wonder about a translation (I'm not Arabic literate. And Quranic Arabic is different than modern Arabic in some respects).

 

[Deidre]

I heard the Angels guided them from error.

But, they were human. Muhammed was human. I don't know. Maybe we'll never fully know. Maybe that is where faith comes in.

 

[Spiderman]

read the book of Proverbs and the Psalms of David.

Muslims acceptt those and they will make more sense to you

Sharu I am impressed with your knowledge of Islam.

Are you Arab?

 

[Deidre]

Also, there's the problem of translation. Some Suras of the Quran have been translated in wildly different ways although others are reasonably close.

WebQT - ©2003 Submission.org is the source I use when I wonder about a translation (I'm not Arabic literate. And Quranic Arabic is different than modern Arabic in some respects).

You're right, yes. It might sound selfish, but...I felt a sense of betrayal from Christianity. So I left it, and I just can't go through that again. I don't believe that any one religion could hold absolute truth, but there is something very different and appealing about Islam. And the STRUGGLE of Islam. I just want to make sure I go into it with eyes open, as opposed to the way Christianity was brought into my life as a kid, when I had no say in it. Now, I have a say.

@SaintMatthew -- thank you for that nice post above. I saw it, and meant to quote it. You know, I could just wear a long skirt, long sleeve shirt, and buy a head scarf, like the girl in the pic. (for prayers) I hadn't thought of that. I like that. And you are right, it is a matter of emptying one's self ...of self.

All of the religions boil down to that, I guess, yes?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Thank you! I'm glad I asked, I wanted to know this. So, when some people think that the prophet Muhammed was a bad person, maybe he delivered an untainted message that was tampered with, by others. Not entirely, but somewhat. This is the problem many have with the Bible. I like the fact that I don't need to worship Muhammed, he was a fallible man. Like us. A holy man, but a man. His story might be imperfect, it is a different story than I'm used to. In Christianity, there is so much need to paint the cast of characters as ''perfect,'' and ''sinless'' and in Jesus' case ''divine.'' If there is a god, and there may be one...there is only One. That is what I believe now, Sha.

Nobody really knows the actual Muhammad. When I make fun of Muhammad I am making fun of the textual Muhammad. I said this last year ago on a thread about whether Muhammad was a bad person. Muhammad had good intentions but he used religion which at that time is great. He did not know that people after him would use him religion to solidify governments and societies down to economics. Point to me Christian economics, Christian baking, Christian marriages, Christian dining or Christian ideology. No manual for it exist that is deemed prophetic. You have church manuals but not seemingly divine ones.
Islam has all this plus more. Everything is legalistic.

If you wish to know more about this read the short book by Ali Dashti 23 years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad. It is a short book that gives a scholarly analysis on Muhammad. Dashti was an Iranian and for the most part an Atheist . . . and a Muslim which is perhaps the biggest contradiction of all time. He admired Muhammad and heavily criticized his history.

 

[Deidre]

@Sha'irullah -- I'm listening to that video clip...that guy is GREAT. Why don't you like him? Listening now. He is saying go to the real people of knowledge to learn about the religion. (Islam) ... He's funny, I like his humor!

He said there are too many people who think they know everything, etc...lol

I wish I knew Arabic.

 

[nazz]

I'm interested in exploring Islam in greater depth as a potential path for myself. Upon reading about Islamic Sufism, the mysticism of it seems so beautiful, and freeing. But, it is also a path that requires its followers to have strict adherence to the Qur'an, yes?

No, not necessarily. I was initiated into the Sufi Ruhaniat International which is a universalist sufi order in the lineage of Hazrat Inayat Khan who was the first to bring sufism to the Western world. However Muslim sufis may not recognize this as genuine sufism.

I was reading that Sufism suggests finding a guide for one's self, and the guide will basically serve as a mentor. Is this required in order to follow Sufism?

Supposedly but I don't agree it is necessary. I did not have one at first and just studied on my own while also learning from various sufi teachers and engaging in spiritual practice with them.

Also, there seems to be pledges one makes of sexual abstinence, poverty, and fasting. I'm a former Christian, and this reminds me of what is required of certain orders of (Catholic) church clergy (priests and nuns)

That sounds like very early sufism which was very ascetic. But celibacy was never a sufi or Muslim practice.

Is it a realistic path for everyday life, for someone new to Islam? I find it to be the path I'm most attracted to right now, which is why I'm asking. Thank you in advance for any advice and insights.

Sufism is what led me to embrace Islam. I think it is a good way to break into it gently so to speak.