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Featured Islamic position on the Bible and Quran.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I learned that many Muslims would claim that the Quran is the "Last Testament" from God and every religion on Earth must be explained through the viewpoint of the Quran. Furthermore, Muslims demand that whenever other scriptures, such as the Old and New Testament, differs from what the Quran says, then the Bible must have been corrupted, and changed by Christians, and the Quran should be used to correct the "Errors in the Bible".
    My position is as such:
    The Bible is true, and not "corrupted" as Muslim scholars are teaching their fellow Muslims. The problem is that the Quran was never revealed by God, but was a concoction by a man who pretended to be a prophet.
    Even when we read the Quran on the views of the Bible, I will prove that any Muslim who say the Bible is corrupt, is actually saying Allah is a liar.

    I thought if there is a Muslim on this forum that would like to debate on the above, I might get some answers to questions I have asked for years, and no Muslim scholar could assist me.
    I inserted the following question after I received a reply. But this is the question we need to adress.
    Does the Quran say the Bible was "Corrupted"
     
    #1 SA Huguenot, Jan 20, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
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  2. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    Answers?

    I'm not sure what you mean.
    There is only One creator of the universe.

    G-d is the fairest of all judges. Every soul is accountable for their deeds. I think that South Africa suffers from a divisive history which is responsible for bad-feeling between races/religions.

    I don't envy you at all. The mix of politics and religion in Africa is enough to drive anybody mad.
    "For the rich man to enter heaven is as the camel passing through the eye of a needle"
     
  3. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is only One, Creator, and his name YHWH.

    South Africa does not suffer from any of the above you are talking about.
    It suffers from a majority Racist country that practices affirmative action against a minority.
    It suffers from the most corrupt politicians that ever ruled a country in Africa.
    It suffers from a total lack of discipline, where people can go on rampages, burn and loot, and then not held accountable for their deeds.
    It suffers from total destruction of any control in government, from basic service deliveries to a breakdown of water, sewer, electricity, roads, infrastructure, schools, hospitals, municipalities, policing, railroads, etc.
    All I mentioned are now a total waste, destroyed and non operative.

    But this is not what we discuss on this forum, so your attempt to bring some form of racism of South Africa into the equation, is a futile attempt to derail the topic in discussion.

    Now, lets get back to work.
    Does the Quran say the Bible was "Corrupted"
     
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  4. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    The reason you don't get much response is that you are a remarkably unrewarding interlocutor to engage with. People will look for some understanding of the other person's point of view and for intelligent engagement on the points of difference.
     
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  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Would not be a smart Muslim

    As, we humans better not try to pin God down as to what God should, could or would (not) do.

    And to imagine that we know what God will do next, well that gets quite close to Blasphemy.

    I read Koran verses, which clearly explained, that we humans better refrain from such habits, esp. when being Muslims

    God can do anything, even tell to go left today and go right tomorrow, don't forget He is the Great Creator, not some arrogant dummy who believes they can create the "Great Reset"
     
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  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    I'm not trying to derail the thread.
    I'm merely pointing out what it looks like from where I'm sitting.
    The culture seems harsh and competitive.

    Your offer to the OP is that "the problem is that the Quran was never revealed by God, but was a concoction by a man who pretended to be a prophet."

    ..so where do you want to go from there?
    What is there to discuss?
     
  7. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    All I am asking is:
    Does the Quran say the Bible is corrupted?

    This is perhaps the greatest question that should be answered between the Christian and Muslim.
    If we can establish, from the point of view of "God" on what His stance is between the Quran and the Bible, we will be able to determine which of the two books should be listened too.

    This is why there is such a huge divide between Muslim and Christian.
    Christians will never accept the Quran as the word of God, and Muslims say they can not trust the Bible, because the Bible and the Quran is in total contrast in its message.

    What do you say?
    Was the Bible corrupted?
     
  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I do not care for the ammount of responses.
    I care for the facts.
    I have a question that no Muslim could ever answer, and I hoped that Muslims on this forum might be able to assist me in unraveling this claim that the Quran is correct, and the Bible corrupted.

    I realy hope you understand what I want.
    If it is a fact that Muslims will not enguage to debate on this question, them I will perceive it as they dont know.
    Thats all.
    If the do reply, perhaps I can get enlightened.

    Perhaps you can tell me if the Quran says the Bible is corrupted?
     
  9. kaninchen

    kaninchen Member

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    I do wish people hadn't tacked all that fanciful stuff at the end of the Tanakh.
     
  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi SA. I enjoyed reading your post very much and maybe make some comment.

    I believe both the Bible and Quran were inspired by God. The Quran confirms that God sent Jesus and Moses and the Torah.

    5:46

    And in their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him, and We gave him the Gospel, wherein is a guidance and a light, confirming the Torah that had come before him, as a guidance and an exhortation to the reverent.

    There are two Revelations from God in the Bible. One is Moses, the other Jesus.

    One of the main differences between Muslims and Christians is that whereas Christians condemn Muhammad as a pretender, Muslims revere Jesus as a Prophet of God. Nowhere will one find a Muslim ever condemning Christ. The Quran exalts Jesus and confirms the Gospels and Torah.

    The Quran was revealed to Muhammad over a 23 year period by Angel Gabriel and verified in His own lifetime. It is the only version and is in Arabic.

    The Bible had many writers. It was recorded often many years after the event and some chapters were not revelations from Moses or Jesus but by ‘unknown authors’.

    One of these chapters is 1 Samuel 15

    And Samuel said to Saul, The Lord sent me to put the holy oil on you and to make you king over his people, over Israel: so give ear now to the words of the Lord. The Lord of armies says, I will give punishment to Amalek for what he did to Israel, fighting against him on the way when Israel came out of Egypt. Go now and put Amalek to the sword, putting to the curse all they have, without mercy: put to death every man and woman, every child and baby at the breast, every ox and sheep, camel and ***.

    God is not a genocidal maniac. Both the Quran and Gospels and other religions never attribute such vile atrocities to the loving Lord. This is where parts of the Bible are narratives written by unknown authors but most certainly cannot be attributed to a loving God.

    Also. there are other things too like the trinity etc. The Quran states that there is only one God.


    Also both the Bible the Old and New Testament make references to Muhammad but Christians do not understand so slander Muhammad. The Bible predicts many future events and one of them was the appearance of Muhammad.
     
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  11. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your kind post.
    I can see that you are sincere in your beliefs, and are someone that loves to believe in peace.
    You also use a lot of statements such as the one I quoted above.
    Unfortunately, that statemen does not hold any historical evidence at all, but is one made up by ignorance about the Bible.
    1. there are not 2 revelations in the Bible, one to Moses and one to Jesus. that is a total falicy.
    There are revelations over a period of 2000 years locked up from Moses to Malachi!
    Thousands of revelations speaking about one thing only, and that is the God YHWH's words and instructions received from 1445 BC to before Jesus' birth.
    It was all compiled by pius scribes in the Temple of Jerusalem, and collected, and carried in captivity with them, and brought back, to survive in written form.
    The Dead sea scrolls collection of all the books of the Old Testament is evidence of this collection and preservation that lasted for 3000 years untill today.
    2. Nowm there was NEVER A REVELATION GIVEN TO JESUS AS THE QURAN CLAIMS

    this is something newer substantiated in history.
    Muhammad thought Jesus received a revelation, he thought Moses received a revelation, and he thought David received one...
    all in a book form!

    As for the Quran, it came 600 years after Jesus, ans all of a sudden denied all the scriptures of the Bible, yeat at the same time claims the Bible is the true word of Allah that can not be corrupted.

    Just some noce info to know, and to ponder about.
    Greetings
     
  12. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what an insult this statement is to me?
    I believe in only ONE God, and he is YHWH,!
    He is not 3 gods as the Quran wants to portray Him, but ONE God who has a body, Mind, and Spirit.
    Not 3 gods that is the father, mary and jesus as Muhammad thought and conveyed in the Quran.

    You see, the Quran makes me an idol worshipper, because I believe in ONE God.
    And Muslims uses the Quran to force me to believe a Trinity is Polytheism.

    They forgot, Muhammad made ANOTHER god, that is not the God of the Bible.
    they are the true idolators.
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    You're getting carried away here.

    There is only One G-d.
    He is the creator and maintainer of the universe.
    Nobody is forcing you to believe anything in particular.
    You choose to believe in a trinity.

    I choose to avoid any concept of G-d that suspiciously associates partners to that One G-d .. whoever or whatever that may be. :)
     
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  14. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Good discussion. Yes there were many other minor Prophets but were under the shadow of Moses, that is all part of the Old Testament and Jewish Faith. The Gospels, the Christian Faith. In both the OT and NT there were many revelations but maybe I should have used the word Dispensation - the Jewish and Christian which together are called the Bible.

    I was born a Christian and fell deeply in love with Jesus and His Teachings and Life. A moment’s separation would be unthinkable as He is always my Beloved. You must cling to the Hem of His Robe always and the more you believe in Him the more He will shower His blessings upon you.

    The Jewish priests rejected Him because they allowed their learning to make them proud so they refused to humbly seek the truth from Him. Had they done so, their eyes would have been opened. They should have not been too confident in their own knowledge. It led to their downfall.
     
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  15. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    ****THREAD MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES***
     
  16. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    I know there are some Baha’i folks on the forum whose actual knowledge of Judaism would fit in a thimble and still leave enough room for a finger.

    I don’t think I’ve asked the question of you - but given my age, I may have and have now forgotten - so forgive me if I ask you now what is the extent of your knowledge?
     
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  17. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I will never believe in a god that is not ONE, I will also not believe in some god created by a man that is not YHWH.
    If God is not a Trinity, he is an idol.
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Pleased to meet you. This is difficult for me because I wish to be humble at all times.

    All knowledge is with God and I am but His servant. There is so much I don’t know but thanks to Him, He has taught me some wonderful things which I never deserved to know.

    Regarding my comments. Thisapplied also to the Pharoah as if he had been humble towards Moses he would have been enlightened.
     
    #18 loverofhumanity, Jan 21, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
  19. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Except for when they don't have the right "faith based" unreasonable beliefs.
    Then your "deeds" don't matter and you get to be eternally tortured regardless.
     
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  20. sherifgg

    sherifgg Member

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    As someone mentioned, there's some aggression in your posts, but I will try to answer some of your questions, to the best of my knowledge as I am no scholar.

    First your question kind of contradicts itself. Why are you looking for answers from the Quran to your question if you claim it was a concoction by a man, if you believe that then it doesn't matter what the Quran says or doesn't because you're not going to believe it anyway.

    But here are some verses from the Quran that directly address this topic:
    Quran 5:13 Surah Al-Ma'idah - 13
    Quran 2:75 Surah Al-Baqarah - 75

    There are a few others verses as well, but it likely won't make a difference to you because more importantly, if the current bible you are reading now directly contradicts what the Quran is saying, then they can't logically both be true, hence it all boils down to whether you believe the Quran is the truth or not, hence my first statement about using the Quran as a reference does not make sense if you do not believe in it. As an example, the Quran states there is no trinity and believing in it is blasphamy and also that Jesus PBUH was not crucified.

    Secondly, as Muslims, our role is to not defame the bible as that serves no real purpose to us. Our role is to believe what is in the Quran and follow it and the teachings of the prophet pbuh, and the Quran tells us to only come to common agreements with Jews and Chrisitans in that we worship the same God and to only debate in a helpful and good manner, if need be, but it does not tell us that we need to defame the bible or say its corrupt.

    I have a question for you though, how do you know the bible that you are reading now is actually the true bible that Jesus PBUH taught, and in which we Muslims believe is also word of God? When and how was the New Testament written? Is it all explicitly the direct word of God, through Jesus?
     
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