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Islamic Immigration In Europe

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
An election this month in Sweden appears to be echoing an anger that is rising in much of Europe, namely a fear that the Islamic immigrants are creating too many problems:

Sweden’s election threw the nation’s political establishment into turmoil as backing for the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats more than doubled, leaving the largest Nordic economy facing a hung parliament...

Backing for the Sweden Democrats, which came into being in the 1980s following a merger of movements including one called Keep Sweden Swedish, has swelled as the country’s open-door policy made it a haven for refugees from Syria and Iraq. The surge in voter support also follows news of beheadings of foreign aid workers and journalists in Iraq by Islamic State...

The outcome is the latest in Europe to see voters flocking to parties that channel angst about greater immigration, Islam and creeping globalization. In France, Marine Le Pen earlier this year won 26 percent in European parliament elections. In the U.K., David Cameron is facing an insurgency from the U.K. Independence Party. And in Germany yesterday, an anti-euro party swept into two eastern state parliaments.
-- Election Throws Sweden Into Turmoil as Nationalists Advance - Bloomberg

Some of my Swedish cousins, who are not Jewish I might add, live in Malmo, which has had a significant problem with vandalism and beatings coming from this element.

I'm hoping that some here at RF who live in Europe chime in on whether they see this as a problem or not, plus what they think might ameliorate the situation. However, anyone can obviously express their opinion.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
As I see it, part of the problem is in the various governments refusing to acknowledge that their open door policy to immigration has very real and somewhat unexpected consequences. They would have to conclude that their policy was ill-conceived or at the very least, poorly implemented.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sensitive subject. My island is the bridge to Europe for all the people coming from Africa, mostly Muslims.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Sensitive subject indeed.

It strikes me that one of the key questions is whether a society can claim any degree of moral expertise? Relativism and multiculturalism seem to take the stance that no one can claim moral expertise, but that strikes me as a huge mistake.

I think we must recognize some degree of moral expertise and not be afraid to say "this idea is simply morally inferior to that idea". This is not to attack people, but it is to be able to evaluate and discard bad ideas.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
I had my life threatened in London a few years ago by Muslim extremists of the jihadee wing simply because I was a Hindu, and what outraged them more was I was a "white" Hindu.

"we will KILL you" were the threats hurled at me when I tried to shop in one area where I thought I could find Indian shops but instead was in a heavy Muslim area where there were also assembled antagonists at the time shouting "death (to this or that)" and promoting terrorist ideology.

I am not so sure they would get away with such behavior today in London, but I am not sure.

Multi-culturalism does not mean you do not have borders. Immigration is about having controls on importing disease, avoiding one "immigrant" population from over running and occupying and then "cleansing" others who are not them. Multi means multiple, diversity, not ONE group of foreign types illegally entering and occupying and then attacking others.

In the US the invasion of i,llegal aliens from south of the border isn't multiculturalism. It is ONE type enmass at the expense of all othedrs including legal immigrants who follow the rules, it isn't multi anything it is politics favoring a single group enmass which they use as foreign votes to keep their political bureaucrats and cronies in power and voter fraud and favortism. This form of politics reeks short term gain at the expense of long term harm, but they don't care. They only care about their retirement annuity at the expense of the general population.

The belly can only take so much of this offal before it starts to vomit, the fault is the those in power who have allowed this which isn't multiculturalsm at all but winking at a single group who are now showing their true face in Europe which is kill all who are not them, the Islamic extremists want to exterminate and commit both cultural and actual genocide of my people the Hindus so I do not take it lightly.

The far left have repeatedly demonstrated to me over the last ten years their philosophy of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" in their lunatic hatred of their own country and have aligned with Islamists again and again.

Oddly, the center left of the "give me free benefits" crowd are not agreeing with the far left and also turning on the invasion into Europe of the antithesis of multiculturalism called Islamists hegemony. This is being spun as "anti-immigrant, anti-multiculturalism" in Netherlands (Dutch Holland) by the far left, but that is not true.

This is Dutch people who like the welfare system, center left, but do not like Islamists coming in as large numbers and "depleting the benefits pool" at the expense of others while these Islamist jihadee types bully everyone else who are not them. They also want to kill Dutch people.

So it isn't necessarily a left verse right thing in Europe, keep in mind what some call right in Europe such as Jew hating Nazi types I do not consider "right" but just another form of socialism but instead of International Socialists they are National Socialists which is what the acronym NAZI means in German. And of course both wings of the socialist far left and fay "right" align with the Islamists on their hatred of the "dirty capitalist Jew".

Europe is awaking to the dangers of this red carpet to Islamic extremists fomented by the policies of bad political leaders. This is a good thing, it is going to happen sooner or later. The risk now is to not allow this reality to be hyjacked by Nazis either, it still exists in Europe.

A tiny faction of that also exises in America. The old, now defunct neo-Nazi group "Liberty Lobby" had direct communicatiuns with Islamic extremists way back when and would glorify them with photos holding weapons or rich jihadees sitting on top of tanks they funded. Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma bombing had connections to Dakota based Nazi groups which in turn had connections to Islamic extremist groups and this was revealed early on before a Democratic Party clamp down by the government on this information.

The far left has like alliances, it is really sick actually and I feel sad for homosexuals who think the far left is their friend. Pol Pot is not your friend.

Europe needs to start to control their borders. Of course the US needs to as well. But disease will change this perspective even with government coverups. Obama is now sending 3000 US troops to run hospital beds in the worse areas of Ebola Africa. He already has military there in the ebola triangle chasing "Christian extremist militias" which only benefits Muslim extremist militias in the same triangle. As far as the military running beds, cots, protection of advisors etc. I do not know if this is a great idea. You hear of ebola mutating to air born form as something that hasn't happened before - but it did happen in one of the early "known" outbreaks.

If and when ebola reaches Mumbai and Kolkata India, all bets are off for the world. History will change, and disease is the number one army in the march of historical outcome. So yes, priority is important.

The first priority now is border control, all air passenger traffic from Africa, etc., and control of US borders. But it might be too late. But for sure, the Islamic extremists will use the weapon of disease. But not so funny but funny thing about it is, they will end up dead in larger numbers as a result then those they attack as they swim in the putrid disease pools of blood and gore they worship.

Mecca will suffer it's demise in plague. It will be the jihadees who will be the very root and cause of this.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I had my life threatened in London a few years ago by Muslim extremists of the jihadee wing simply because I was a Hindu, and what outraged them more was I was a "white" Hindu.

"we will KILL you" were the threats hurled at me when I tried to shop in one area where I thought I could find Indian shops but instead was in a heavy Muslim area where there were also assembled antagonists at the time shouting "death (to this or that)" and promoting terrorist ideology.

I am not so sure they would get away with such behavior today in London, but I am not sure.

Multi-culturalism does not mean you do not have borders. Immigration is about having controls on importing disease, avoiding one "immigrant" population from over running and occupying and then "cleansing" others who are not them. Multi means multiple, diversity, not ONE group of foreign types illegally entering and occupying and then attacking others.

In the US the invasion of i,llegal aliens from south of the border isn't multiculturalism. It is ONE type enmass at the expense of all othedrs including legal immigrants who follow the rules, it isn't multi anything it is politics favoring a single group enmass which they use as foreign votes to keep their political bureaucrats and cronies in power and voter fraud and favortism. This form of politics reeks short term gain at the expense of long term harm, but they don't care. They only care about their retirement annuity at the expense of the general population.

The belly can only take so much of this offal before it starts to vomit, the fault is the those in power who have allowed this which isn't multiculturalsm at all but winking at a single group who are now showing their true face in Europe which is kill all who are not them, the Islamic extremists want to exterminate and commit both cultural and actual genocide of my people the Hindus so I do not take it lightly.

The far left have repeatedly demonstrated to me over the last ten years their philosophy of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" in their lunatic hatred of their own country and have aligned with Islamists again and again.

Oddly, the center left of the "give me free benefits" crowd are not agreeing with the far left and also turning on the invasion into Europe of the antithesis of multiculturalism called Islamists hegemony. This is being spun as "anti-immigrant, anti-multiculturalism" in Netherlands (Dutch Holland) by the far left, but that is not true.

This is Dutch people who like the welfare system, center left, but do not like Islamists coming in as large numbers and "depleting the benefits pool" at the expense of others while these Islamist jihadee types bully everyone else who are not them. They also want to kill Dutch people.

So it isn't necessarily a left verse right thing in Europe, keep in mind what some call right in Europe such as Jew hating Nazi types I do not consider "right" but just another form of socialism but instead of International Socialists they are National Socialists which is what the acronym NAZI means in German. And of course both wings of the socialist far left and fay "right" align with the Islamists on their hatred of the "dirty capitalist Jew".

Europe is awaking to the dangers of this red carpet to Islamic extremists fomented by the policies of bad political leaders. This is a good thing, it is going to happen sooner or later. The risk now is to not allow this reality to be hyjacked by Nazis either, it still exists in Europe.

A tiny faction of that also exises in America. The old, now defunct neo-Nazi group "Liberty Lobby" had direct communicatiuns with Islamic extremists way back when and would glorify them with photos holding weapons or rich jihadees sitting on top of tanks they funded. Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma bombing had connections to Dakota based Nazi groups which in turn had connections to Islamic extremist groups and this was revealed early on before a Democratic Party clamp down by the government on this information.

The far left has like alliances, it is really sick actually and I feel sad for homosexuals who think the far left is their friend. Pol Pot is not your friend.

Europe needs to start to control their borders. Of course the US needs to as well. But disease will change this perspective even with government coverups. Obama is now sending 3000 US troops to run hospital beds in the worse areas of Ebola Africa. He already has military there in the ebola triangle chasing "Christian extremist militias" which only benefits Muslim extremist militias in the same triangle. As far as the military running beds, cots, protection of advisors etc. I do not know if this is a great idea. You hear of ebola mutating to air born form as something that hasn't happened before - but it did happen in one of the early "known" outbreaks.

If and when ebola reaches Mumbai and Kolkata India, all bets are off for the world. History will change, and disease is the number one army in the march of historical outcome. So yes, priority is important.

The first priority now is border control, all air passenger traffic from Africa, etc., and control of US borders. But it might be too late. But for sure, the Islamic extremists will use the weapon of disease. But not so funny but funny thing about it is, they will end up dead in larger numbers as a result then those they attack as they swim in the putrid disease pools of blood and gore they worship.

Mecca will suffer it's demise in plague. It will be the jihadees who will be the very root and cause of this.

You have your political ideologies all messed up. I'm an anarcho-communist, so I'm a far-leftist. Not all of us have the same views on things. I despise this nonsense that has people from cultures vastly different from ours and in conflict with ours brought over in droves and not expected to assimilate. In fact, almost all the people who live in my apartment block are either Somalis or Nepalese immigrants. Most of them don't speak English. They're very dirty and most of them are very rude. Their children are allowed to run amuck like a bunch of wild animals. The Americans in my neighborhood - both white and black - are being driven out and replaced by third worlders. (I'm sorry, but they stink, too. Especially the Somalis.)

Oh, but it's not just the Muslims, although Columbus has had an avalanche of them coming here in the past decade. This place is owned by a bunch of Indian Hindus who are slum lords. The "property manager" is an African Muslim (I forget which country he's from) and he obviously hates my mom and I. We're involved with a conflict with them right now, actually. I know they're trying to get rid of us. I hate this place. I don't feel like I'm in America anymore. They live off welfare and pop out kids like there's no tomorrow.

Honestly, I much prefer the Mexicans. They're very hard-working people and there's no big cultural conflicts with them, where these Somalis and Nepalese just sit on their ***** all day long. The reason the border won't be fixed probably has more to do with the drug trade and parts of the government having a hand in it.

But, ultimately, I think this comes down to importing cheap labor and keeping the rabble fighting amongst ourselves.
 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I had my life threatened in London a few years ago by Muslim extremists of the jihadee wing simply because I was a Hindu, and what outraged them more was I was a "white" Hindu.

It's a fairly common perception amongst various [radically] proselytizing societies:

Why did you join them, and not us ?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Well...when Europeans migrated to America, they did any thing to hide their national identity, because they wanted to start a new life by trying to assimilate American culture and lifestyle as much as they could.
and still Americans considered them second-class citizens.
Being an Irish was not something to be proud of. And yet I wonder, what is the difference between a Dubliner and a Londoner? :sarcastic

But Muslims do not certainly hide their cultural identity
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Well...when Europeans migrated to America, they did any thing to hide their national identity, because they wanted to start a new life by trying to assimilate American culture an lifestyle as much as they could.
and still Americans considered them second-class citizens.
Being an Irish was not something to be proud of. And yet I wonder, what is the difference between a Dubliner and a Londoner? :sarcastic

That's because all the WASPS were bigoted towards the Irish, Italians, Greeks and Slavs and also hated Catholics. They brought their bigotries over from Europe and fancied themselves to be aristocrats of a sort. To some extent, many of the English still have this snooty attitude towards others.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
An election this month in Sweden appears to be echoing an anger that is rising in much of Europe, namely a fear that the Islamic immigrants are creating too many problems:

Sweden’s election threw the nation’s political establishment into turmoil as backing for the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats more than doubled, leaving the largest Nordic economy facing a hung parliament...

Backing for the Sweden Democrats, which came into being in the 1980s following a merger of movements including one called Keep Sweden Swedish, has swelled as the country’s open-door policy made it a haven for refugees from Syria and Iraq. The surge in voter support also follows news of beheadings of foreign aid workers and journalists in Iraq by Islamic State...

The outcome is the latest in Europe to see voters flocking to parties that channel angst about greater immigration, Islam and creeping globalization. In France, Marine Le Pen earlier this year won 26 percent in European parliament elections. In the U.K., David Cameron is facing an insurgency from the U.K. Independence Party. And in Germany yesterday, an anti-euro party swept into two eastern state parliaments.
-- Election Throws Sweden Into Turmoil as Nationalists Advance - Bloomberg

Some of my Swedish cousins, who are not Jewish I might add, live in Malmo, which has had a significant problem with vandalism and beatings coming from this element.

I'm hoping that some here at RF who live in Europe chime in on whether they see this as a problem or not, plus what they think might ameliorate the situation. However, anyone can obviously express their opinion.
I live in Sweden and I am annoyed to no end that the Sweden Democrats has as much support as they do. Personally, I have had no problems with immigrants. The ones I meet are good people. And I am not going to say there arent immigrants that are problematic, I just think that they are people. Some good, some bad. Kind of like us Swedes.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I live in Sweden and I am annoyed to no end that the Sweden Democrats has as much support as they do. Personally, I have had no problems with immigrants. The ones I meet are good people. And I am not going to say there arent immigrants that are problematic, I just think that they are people. Some good, some bad. Kind of like us Swedes.

The problem appears not to be consistent throughout Sweden, and at least some of the problem deals with attacks on the Jewish community. In Malmo, according to an article I read last winter, the mayor there told local Jews not to wear stuff that's conspicuously Jewish.

BTW, most of my cousins live in Malmo and Skane, so where abouts are you located, if you don't mind me asking? Right now I'm writing from my place near Marquette in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which has plenty of Swedes and where my maternal grandparents grew up that I was especially close to.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
The problem appears not to be consistent throughout Sweden, and at least some of the problem deals with attacks on the Jewish community. In Malmo, according to an article I read last winter, the mayor there told local Jews not to wear stuff that's conspicuously Jewish.

BTW, most of my cousins live in Malmo and Skane, so where abouts are you located, if you don't mind me asking? Right now I'm writing from my place near Marquette in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which has plenty of Swedes and where my maternal grandparents grew up that I was especially close to.
I live in one of the major cities, and not in Malmö (not sure if Malmö is classed as a major city or not, though, mainly because I am horrible at things like that :p). I also study at the university, and there are a lot of people from different backgrounds in my class, including immigrants. And honestly, I like that. I enjoy diversity.

I am sure some people have problems with immigrants, I am just against saying that all immigrants are bad. The ones that are needs to be dealt with, of course, but I think it should be analyzed further then "they come from elsewhere, so that must be the problem".

But I dont really know what I am talking about, so please ignore me if I make no sense :p.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I live in one of the major cities, and not in Malmö (not sure if Malmö is classed as a major city or not, though, mainly because I am horrible at things like that :p). I also study at the university, and there are a lot of people from different backgrounds in my class, including immigrants. And honestly, I like that. I enjoy diversity.

I am sure some people have problems with immigrants, I am just against saying that all immigrants are bad. The ones that are needs to be dealt with, of course, but I think it should be analyzed further then "they come from elsewhere, so that must be the problem".

But I dont really know what I am talking about, so please ignore me if I make no sense :p.

Ah, you do make sense. Like yourself, I am not anti-immigration, and I have long felt very strongly about the issue of civil rights-- like for over 50 years.

Here in the States, at least to this point, we have had little problem with Middle Eastern immigration, and I hope it stays that way. We in the Jewish community and they in the Muslim community pretty much keep to ourselves, and there has been very little hostility between us.

However, I know that France and the U.K. haven't had it so lucky, and my understanding is that especially the Muslim population tends to feel it's not being accepted, thus marginalized economically. But neither do most seem to want to return back to the M.E. probably because of all the economic and political problems there.
 

mycorrhiza

Well-Known Member
I live in Sweden, just 10 minutes from Malmö, and I have yet to see any major problems with immigration except for the structural discrimation against immigrants. The problems of immigration are very much exaggerated.

The people who vote for the Sweden Democrats are simply people who are either directly racist or are looking for an easy answer to the growing problems of our society. Instead of analyzing the market factors, economic segregation and the growing political swaying towards the right wing, they just blame the immigrants.

It's mostly men, often with low education, and mostly in rural areas with very little immigrants, that vote for SD. For example, the village I grew up in had a maximum of 20-30 immigrants, but yet SD has a 30% support there. Judging by the people there, it's not exactly difficult to imagine that 13% (the total voters for SD) of Sweden's population are racist, because the ones in my village sure were.

Racist scandal after racist scandal is piled on the Sweden Democrats. Some of their highest up members were filmed when they walked on the street with iron pipes to beat up/threaten an immigrant while saying racist and sexist things. Something like this would never happen in any of the other big parties. The Sweden Democrats have their roots in the nazi movement, and when the current leader joined it wasn't uncommon for members to wear nazi uniforms and do nazi salutes.
 
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