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Islamic Cosmology and Muslim ontology?

Discussion in 'Islam DIR' started by Nehustan, May 16, 2013.

  1. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Actually very interesting...I had thought you might see the similarity in more than you did. But interesting that you found the last one slightly similar.
     
  2. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    I found this bit particularly interesting

    I don't have any answers for you, but it's interesting that mundane light figures, perhaps as a symbol of divine light, and trees seem to figure also, which as you will have seen from the survey are something I think symbolically pertain to 3 dimensional space.
     
  3. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    So what does it mean? i'm always excited when it comes to the results. :D

    By the way, on the last one i thought the roots of the trees was similar to the Yiddish/Hanukkah and the picture on the left was similar to a cross. :p weird huh?
     
  4. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Well, i think it's more than 3 dimensions. It's as if i'm not convinced of what i see by my eyes, as if it's just a deception. I often ask family members and friends what they would feel while they are in a dream, and i mean, when they see weird stuff which you would never believe while you are awake. Like you are in one spot, and suddenly you find yourself in a different city, or when you meet and talk to dead people, or when you see dinosaurs, angels, anything which you would never have slightly believed if it was while you are awake.

    All of these dreams--inside the dream--are normal, but when we wake up we think, oh, that was weird. What if we are now on a different type of dream?

    Actually, there is one scholar who tried to answer that question. He mentioned that in the hereafter we would feel as if we just woke up from a dream which lasted couples of hours or even minutes.

    What do you think?
     
  5. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Well actually we ourselves live through time, so that's at least a fourth dimension; x, y, z and t.

    Your post makes me think of two things I have heard...

    'And when they realise the true reality it will be as if their whole life had been as a blinking of an eye'

    and

    'We live a dream in the dream of Allah'
     
  6. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Also ...

    [It will be said], "You were certainly in unmindfulness of this, and We have removed from you your cover, so your sight, this Day, is sharp." (Quran 50:22)
     
  7. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Have to ever thought of the Kaaba as representative of 3 dimensional space? After all Kaaba=Cube?
     
  8. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Not that weird :no:
     
  9. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    To me, Kaaba is just a symbol for something bigger. Something like gravity, magnet, field, but never thought of kaaba in itself to mean something in specific. The first time you reach Kaaba you will feel a strong spiritual experience. I remember the first time i touched the Kaaba, i felt a slight pain in my heart. It was not a pain but more like it were touched from the inside. I know this discussion is not about mysticism but sometimes i do feel that what people often think of as something mystic, unable to be touched, is actually very touchable but only to those who can see, and of course not to human beings, at least not in this earthly life.

    When it comes to Kaaba "cube" being 3 dimensional space i often find myself bonded by suggestive theories by others in this field, not my own reflections because alot of people talked about it.
     
  10. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Mystical is good. It often relates to what is intangible to us, and cosmology is also in this realm. We sort of take it for granted and thus it is an overriding sense of something rather than a specific thought.

    Have they??? Ooooooohhhh interesting...any links or book/article suggestions?
     
  11. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    I did it but no result.

    How many answers you need for that survey ?
    Maybe you could create a thread in the DIR for more participation.

    :confused:

    Can you explain ?
     
  12. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Well a square is 2d, a cube 3d, so it can be seen as representing 3d space. Quite often we have three axes to do it x, y, z but a cube is that 'solidified' as it were. Kaaba in Arabic means (or at least has the same root) as Cube.
     
  13. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that you saw absolutely no correlation between the symbols. It makes me think I need to include some symbols that really really don't have any relationship, like circles, triangles, squares.

    Thanks for completing the limited survey tho, it will help me formulate the eventual format for the test...
     
  14. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    I love surveys :)


    Can i ask you what was your religion before ?

    Maybe it can explain why you see more symbols than us.
     
  15. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    I was a christian, and I'm sure you see just as many signs and symbols as me, you just might not interpret them as such.


    There's an interesting quote, but it seems not to be borne out by this thread
    'Christians have the symbol of the cross, Muslims have it's doctrine'
     
  16. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Maybe.

    So, what's the signs ans symbols that you see other than the Kaaba ?
     
  17. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Well the circle seems to be quite important, it figures in some of the primary rituals of the religion.

    Then to be honest I'm not sure what you mean, it is as if you imply that somehow Muslims are blind to sign and symbol, when they exist everywhere around us. The compass representing direction (used to find the qibla), road signs signifying turn left, turn right, directions to fire exits, exits to ground go down, exit to roof go up. Signs are literally everywhere. We don't have to be talking soley religious smybolism, it's more about how Muslims as humans place themselves within the world, physically as well as spiritually, although if the two coincided that would be very interesting. It is all well and good negating, or saying one negates a sign, doesn't use them, then waits for a green man to cross the road.

    The Arabic alphabet are signs...some have written on the symbolic qualities of the alphabet, i.e. initial Alif having no sound other than when it is voweled.

    Then there is the whole subject of 'Arabesque', and Quranic symbolism Stars, Niches, Trees, Light, etc. The Quran itself is called the Book of Signs, Ayat literally meaning sign.

    While not having idols or religious symbolism pictorially, Muslims inhabit the same universe as everyone else, it would be peculiar is they somehow did not create symbolic schemas to represent it...but perhaps some no longer do?

    They certainly did throughout the history of Islam, although they were not thought to have any divine power as they do with other faiths, i.e. god idols, mandalas, religious icons.
     
  18. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    Well, maybe i didn't pay attention to that.
    I try to understand things in the simple manner as possible.

    It's like maths for exemple. I never understood why using all the formulas when it's possible to calculate in a more simplify manner (ex: the fractions)

    So maybe it's me. I see things like they are and don't try to find symbols.

    Also, it's possible that muslims used to think in term of symbols/signs in the early times of Islam as they were very curious about philosophia, astronomy ect.
    But muslims of nowadays are not really teached about that.
    We go straight to the point.

    Maybe i'm wrong, that's just my impression.
     
  19. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    And as an impression it's perfectly valid :yes:
     
  20. Nehustan

    Nehustan Well-Known Member

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    Just to pick up on this analogy (a sign of sorts), it is because what is simple with small quantities, becomes less simple with larger works. Having a formula that can work in exchange with other formulae, actually saves working for longer problems.

    In basic maths it does seem labourious, but by A Level and degree level maths it actually saves time rather than costing time.
     
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