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Featured Islamaphobia - Years later, I accept its a real/true phenomena and an industry

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Islamaphobia

    The reason I dont like this word is because I think its wrong. I was told that a phobia is when someone has an irrational fear of something and they know that the fear is irrational but they still fear it. Its a psychological condition.

    But what this word represents is not that. Because people dont know that this fear is irrational. They actually believe that this fear is rational. So being a scientific or a medical term it’s wrong.

    But then again one must admit that there are many wrong words that have been established now and you cant take them back so we have no choice but to go along. Like the word Jihadist. Everyone knows what a Jihadist means. A Jihadist is a person who identifies himself as a Muslim and uses his theology to fight for something in his country or for a cause. But this word doesn’t make sense to many people if you look at it scientifically.

    If you look at the Quran which is deemed the textbook of the arabic language, the word Jihad means “to try”. So what does the word Jihadist mean? So this word is a problem in its essence. But it’s established and one cant change what it represents.

    And the word “awful”. Sometime ago if a person says “my king is awful” it would have meant “full of awe”. Now it’s the exact opposite. If I say “you as a thug are awful” to a drug lord I will get killed. Awful now means the opposite of Awesome. Strange world isn’t it?

    So bottomline is this word is now established and one cannot change it.

    Does Islamaphobia exist? Yes it definitely does. It exists mostly in the hands of writers and speakers who make a career out of it. There is no easier way to come to the limelight by speaking nonsense than to use Islamaphobia.

    Recently I read a comment about an article that read “woman burns Quran in protest against rape”. She alludes that Muslims are rapists. She is American and there are only 1% Muslims in the country. Its an illusion she is trying to create but I’m sure she will get famous or at least this is an attempt to.

    It is common to see many people associate terrorism with Islam. Islam is the motherload of bad ideas says Sam Harris. Hitler picked up his ideas from Islam says Ali Sina. Many people make a lot of claims like this and sell books. Robert Morey, Robert Spencer etc. If one analyses the history of the world, there has been thousands and thousands of wars between people. If you read the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillip and Alan Axelrod you will see they have data filling over 1,400 pages as if the world was at war more than governance. Religion is a language that people use to identify themselves. Buddhism teaches us not to hate anyone because hatred cannot be mulled by hatred but the lack of hatred alone. That didn’t stop Buddhist monks in Myanmar from promoting violence. Jesus is quoted to have said to give the other cheek, but that didn’t stop the church from the inquisition as henry Charles lea, the American historian, civic reformer, and political activist remarked in his most famous book A History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages, “Christendom seemed to have grown delirious and Satan might well smile at the tribute to his power in the endless smoke of the holocaust which bore witness to the triumph of the Almighty.”

    Religion

    A man named Robert A. Pape, PhD and founder of Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, a very well-known political scientist from the United States of America compiled a database of all suicide attacks from 1980 to 2003 with an extensive research of news in all available media outlets. His book was called Dying to Win, The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism and in the introduction section he says

    “The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world’s religions. In fact, the leading instigators of suicide attacks are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist-Leninist group whose members are from Hindu families but who are adamantly opposed to religion. This group committed 76 of the 315 incidents, more suicide attacks than Hamas. Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland. Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organisations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective. Three general patterns in the data support my conclusions. First, nearly all suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of organized campaigns, not as isolated or random incidents. Of the 315 separate attacks in the period I studied, 301 could have their roots traced to large, coherent political or military campaigns.”

    Robert Pape goes to explain various levels of terrorism while suicide terrorism is the most extreme. He gives an example “One LTTE suicide attacker was motivated by the thought that the Sinhalese Buddhists would destroy the Hindu temples near her village, even though she had never visited them.”

    He says “Two main explanations have been offered thus far. The first argues that local competition between the LTTE and other Tamil guerrilla groups encouraged the LTTE to use the extreme tactic of suicide to distinguish itself from its rivals. The second explanation stresses the “cult-like” behaviour of the group in which the Tamil Tigers separate their fighters from the general population and brainwash recruits to follow the leader’s orders without conscious choice.”

    Follow the leader’s orders without conscious choice. Sounds like a sane explanation of the insanity.

    Religion is used as a language to achieve certain goals a state or a group has as foundation to further their cause. Their root 'cause' is made of secular goals but their communication takes the language of religion. Even secularism has been used in the past as the language that leaderships have used for their cause. Take Joseph Stalin for example. He was a secular atheist with a secular state and he butchered Christians, Christian pastors and people who had a Bible at home during his reign. He was instrumental in the deaths over 15 million people and is deemed only second to Mao Zedong in the number of human deaths caused by them and their regime. And it may come as a surprise to many when they learn Joseph Stalin persecuted homosexuals by jailing them up to five years and that’s in the 20th century while the so called Muslim khalifate, the Ottoman Empire gave them full rights way back in 1858. The scale of totalitarianism tips this way and that way but what we remember top of mind is what we see every day on TV.

    Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod compiled the comprehensive book on wars in history called “Encyclopedia of Wars”, a great read, clearly shows that only 7% of all wars ever recorded in history were motivated by religion.

    Murder in the name of God

    In a nutshell, the Islamic scripture directly tells you never to take an innocent life. So says the Quran in chapter 5 verse 32 - “It is because of this that we have decreed for the Children of Israel: “Anyone who kills a person who has not committed murder, or who has not committed corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people. “

    Now notice that this verse says as a blanket statement that a person who has not committed murder should not be killed or even as a government give a death sentence. But there is a phrase here that many people misunderstand that says “or who has not committed corruption in the land” which is open for interpretation. The Arabic phrase “Al Fasadhu Fil Ardh (الفساد في الأرض)”, or corruption in the land has a definition which a lot of people have ignored. This maybe the boring part for the reader, but this also maybe a piercer of faith to the fanatic. Read further.

    So says the Quran in chapter 27, verses 48 to 50, - “And in the city were nine ruffians who were causing corruption in the land, and they were not reforming. They said: “Swear by God to one another that we will attack him and his family at night, …...

    Notice that it says “Swear by God”. This is what the Quran is saying by the phrase “Spreading corruption in the land”. These are the people the verse 5:32 above is speaking about and they are very clearly explained.

    So it should be evident, that their claim of murdering innocents shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’, calls for Gods wrath on them, and the penalty is nothing but death. You murderer, your Quran is mandating a death sentence to you purely for murdering people using Gods name.

    Bottomline: If you say Allah/God and kill an innocent human being, you are the scum of the earth according to the Quran. YOU!

    Conspiracy theories aside, a firm believer in Bin Laden and Al Qaeeda’s connection to the world trade centre bombings in the USA Robert A. Pape says in his book Dying to Win, the one book that has the most extensive research and data collection on suicide terrorism, “However, the presumed connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism is misleading and may be encouraging domestic and foreign policies likely to worsen America’s situation and to harm many Muslims needlessly”.

    How do these people make their living off this fear? Is it real?
     
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  2. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, strip away the particulars and you get this: I have some negative feelings and emotions. I solve that by being Right and fight everybody else, who don't do as I want them to do.
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Are you talking from a sociology of religion perspective?
     
  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, general biology, psychology and sociology rolled into one.
     
  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Ah....... No. Wrong.

    Little Oxford Dictionary & Thesaurus
    phobia n. and extreme or irrational fear or dislike.

    phobia n. AVERSION. fear , dread, horror, terror, hatred, loathing, detestation, antipathy, revulsion.

    And so, as you can see, you were told wrong because this can be either an irrational fear or an extreme fear.

    You are widely read and have a good memory. You should obtain an Oxford Dictionary to add to your library.
     
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  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Sorry I did not understand what you are trying to say.

    Do you mean to say that "humans impose their social needs onto religion"? Thats sociology of religion.
     
  7. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, they do it in general by being "Right" and that is not unique to religion unless everything we do, is religion.
     
  8. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Many years ago I used to be like this too, but I believe it was because of my lack in understanding of what Islam truly is.
    Those extremists are not Muslims in my view. They do not know islam. But the millions of good Muslims are nice people.
     
  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Religion:
    religion | Definition, Types, & List of Religions

    You can of course reduce all human behavior and the world as such down to religion, but that becomes meaningless.
    In pracitce for humans our everyday world is objective, inter-subjective and/or subjective and combinations here off, but we can't reduce that down to just science or philosophy or religion. It will always be a combination in practice.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Brother. You should read a Diagnostic and statistical manual of psychology to understand what a phobia is. I can recommend DSM by the American Psdychiatric Society. I am no psychiatrist or psychologist mate but I have read this purely to understand this term because as I have said I always disagreed the usage of this word "Islamaphobia" because its clinically wrong. But, things have evolved now and of course I have explained in the OP.

    Dictionary is good, but gives a very concise summary. Its too shallow really, but how ever you wish to define it, its still fine with me because it does not really negate anything in the writing above.

    Thanks for your advice though. Highly appreciated.
     
  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Here is a Danish comedian on that one as paraphrased: Most people are decent, so maybe we should just give the jerks a place of their own. What about Indonesia? ;) :D
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Great. Cheers.
     
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  13. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I do not judge them anymore. People do wrong in every religion, so Islam is not any worse for them to believe in. Indonesia is one of the more extreme countries in certain areas of belief. But until I can say I my self do not do wrong anymore I will not judge them.
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I think the word is right. An extreme fear towards Islam. Some people have extreme fears. I do not belittle their fears.

    Hindu Scriptures are very clear that we should always WATCH our ... Words, Actions, Thoughts, Character, Heart

    To me it's more interesting how Islam got such a reputation ... don't blame the non-Muslims for it ... Muslims better introspect

    So, I think the word is very right, and very valuable ... if Muslims are willing to do this introspection
     
  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Great verse. IF it was the only verse in the Koran, Islamophobia probably would never happen. Sadly the writers added Islamophobia fueling verses.
     
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  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Islamaphobia is an industry. A money making machine. I dont blame "Non-Muslims" for this, which is a bigoted thing to do since the word "Non-Muslim" refers to around 5.5 billion people. I dont blame "Muslims" either because the word Muslims refers to 1.6 billion people. Both are definitions of Bigotry.

    The OP is specific.
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I don't blame Muslims for it. The word is caused by the Koran, so if we should blame, we should maybe blame the receiver/writer of the Koran

    The OP is also very long (like Koran), so creating lot's of opportunity to reply.
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    I don't subscribe to Islamophobia, whatever that might be, as I know that most Muslims, like most others, are decent people just wanting to live a decent life. And I have no issues with their doing so, just like with all others having some kind of religious belief. I do have issues when some teaching of any particular religion tends to cause any within or without the religion to suffer because of what was written thousands of years ago, and apparently decreed by some messenger or supposedly coming from God, and where the message is believed by the religious because it is expected of them - attitudes towards homosexuality being a typical example perhaps.

    For me, Islamophobia is just the current situation - many religions having had such in the past - where oil has been the means to advance (and promote) Islam in the Middle East and elsewhere, and where terrorism has tagged along to enhance such (as if it would), with the reaction to such being rather obvious.

    One doesn't have to look very far on this forum to know that many seem to extrapolate the behaviour of the few to the many, and which is a common characteristic of those who are not so critical in their questioning or thinking.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    err. Alright mate. Cheers.
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    It is not just Muslims, Christians (and Jews too). They did or do to each other what the other did and does to them. But Hinduism has always suffered because of both.
     
    #20 Aupmanyav, Jul 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
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