Islam

[Epic Beard Man]

You really think so?

None of the Muslims I know are fundamentalist.

Right but the all knowing Luis thinks otherwise...Apparently he has not set foot on college campuses or anything progressive.

 

[LuisDantas]

You really think so?

Yes, I do.

None of the Muslims I know are fundamentalist.

I wonder how overt they are.

 

[LuisDantas]

Right but the all knowing Luis thinks otherwise...Apparently he has not set foot on college campuses or anything progressive.

Nor has Islaam, nor is it likely to. There is a fundamental incompatibility between academy and Islaam.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I'm wondering how liberal people feel about the culture war surrounding Islam.

I don't find this specific enough

What do you make of the percieved threat of Islam?

Perceived threat? Well there may very well be a 'perceived' threat. How truthful is that perception?

Is ISIS or the Taliban Islamic?

No I don't think so, because as I understand it, they violate a hadith that says not to kill your fellow Muslim. They also violate the Koran's terms of treating with a rival about peace. The Koran doesn't allow non-defensive warfare.

Quran 8:61 And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.

(Compared to how Christian you think the evangelical movement is in America for example)

I also don't think the evangelical movement in the United States is Christian. They mesh their political ideology with their religion's teachings to the degree of negating the spiritual principles.

How should liberals help stop the spread of virulent and hateful strains (or if you prefer violent bastardisations) of Islam?

Communication, dialogue, and standing as allies of the moderates

Do you support immigration reform? Temporary bans of movement from certain regions?

No

Is it Islamophobic to suggest that much of the Koran is bat**** crazy as many public atheists and prominent new conservative types do?

If you have read and understand what the Koran says, than sure- you can conclude it's crazy. How could one conclude anything about it if they never study it?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Nor has Islaam, nor is it likely to. There is a fundamental incompatibility between academy and Islaam.

"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge."

"And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your tongues and colors; most surely there are signs in this for the learned."

"The best form of worship is to contemplate about God and His Power." Usul al-Kafi, II, 55.

"Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire."

 

[Politesse]

Nor has Islaam, nor is it likely to. There is a fundamental incompatibility between academy and Islaam.

Hogwash. I have many fine Muslim students. Both genders, many different traditions. They are doing fine.

Now, blind prejudice and the academy, though often paired, are not good companions in my opinion.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

One of the things some of the Muslims have told me (one who is a higher rank member here) basically stated that the various members that come through these boards are very close minded. There really is no "meeting of the minds" here when it comes to dialogue. There is no seeking to understand, there is simply a bias and an argument, so I understand why Muslims especially those who are patient and willing to discuss Islam refrain from answering threads such as these. Luis has a bias, Revolt has a bias (some ignorant biases at that, which is my opinion) but nobody is willing to listen to a learned reader.

As a non-Muslim I actually took time out of my day to read Islamic philosophy, Islamic theology, and eschatology as well as cosmology. I have some slight philosophical differences on Islam but I took time out to actually study the faith. I'm so hard on those like the ones here in disagreement because it took me over 2 years to have somewhat of a complete understanding. Not because it is hard to understand but to make sure contextually I understand certain implications of certain verses. I didn't look at the Young Turks and say "see Muslims aren't so bad." I gather my experiences from a variety of sources.

I firmly believe if you disagree wholeheartedly with a thing and are not open to discuss something then there really is no need for you to participate in dialogue if your heart is unwilling to listen. It makes your views pointless. So far only two people in this thread have not even half the extensive background in understanding Islam and its sad. I just think people need to immerse themselves more in scholastic studies than just lie on the internet googling s*** to confirm their bias.

It's a waste of money to be a premium member to a religious website that is bent on world religions yet you are steadfast in disagreement on one or a few. If you refuse to learn and remain in your own bias filled with ignorance you've mismanaged your money.

 

[Yerda]

I wonder how overt they are.

Would you ask the same question of a Jew or a Catholic?

 

[LuisDantas]

Hogwash. I have many fine Muslim students. Both genders, many different traditions. They are doing fine.

Now, blind prejudice and the academy, though often paired, are not good companions in my opinion.

How faithful to the doctrine to you think they are?

You should probably take a look at it sometime.

 

[LuisDantas]

Would you ask the same question of a Jew or a Catholic?

I actually would, and have.

But that is truly besides the point. Islaam, to a very large extent, is about setting Muslims apart. The Qur'an is very clear on that regard.

 

[Politesse]

How faithful to the doctrine to you think they are?

You should probably take a look at it sometime.

Looks like perhaps you are playing the fundamentalist's role here, telling people how "faithful" they need to be to a particular interpretation of their faith. There are a lot of perspectives on Muslim life, and I don't see it as anyone's business but their own how "pious" they are.

I note that "doctrine" is a Catholic, not Muslim, concept. There is but one Lawgiver in Muslim tradition, and He is not an ecumenical council.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

*mod post* To newcomers in the thread be aware that this is in the liberal only section *mod post*

 

[Politesse]

If this thread demonstrates anything, it's that Islam represents a bit of a weak point in American commitment to religious liberalism. Every generation has one. Before Muslims it was Jews, and before them it was Catholics, and there was Mormonism in and out for a while... There's always someone that we feel justified in not tolerating even while in theory we feel we should tolerate everyone. Always someone who is supposedly too to persnickety to assimilate into the whole, and thus too dangerous to befriend, whatever your politics. The religious Bogeyman of our time. Who will it be for our grandchildren, I wonder?