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Islam - Woman is only worth 1/2 of a man?

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Egypt

Professor combats ignorance about Islam, women

Profile of Egyptian-born Leila Ahmed, Professor of Women's Studies at Harvard Divinity School


By Julia Lieblich, The Associated Press, August 12, 1999

Egyptian women's rights: A century on


BBC News, 23 October 1999



'New era' for Egyptian women


BBC News, 12 march 2000



Egypt debates better deal for women


BBC News, 17 January 2000



First Egyptian woman files for divorce



BBC News, 29 January 2000

Cairo conference of prominent Arab Women


BBC News, 20 November 2000


Lebanon

Beirut hosts 'honour killing' conference



In Lebanon a two-day conference is looking into a phenomenon known as 'honour killings', when men kill female relatives to redeem the family's name.


BBC News, May 13, 2001


Sudan



BBC News, 20 December 2000


Mali

Fighting for life in birth



The high mortality rate of infants and their mothers in Muslim Mali.


BBC News, May 11, 2001








Saudi Arabia


Saudi women join reform call

A number of women in Saudi Arabia have signed a petition calling for radical reform to tackle growing extremist Islamic influence in the country.
BBC News, 30 September, 2003​







BBC News, 21 January 2001​






BBC News, 4 October 1999​



Educated for indolence
Thousands of Saudi women get university degrees. Few get jobs.


By David Hirst in Jeddah. The Guardian, August 3, 1999




BBC News, 21 September 1998​




Turkey







The women who face jail for daring to accuse the police of sexual abuse


The Observer (London), March 25, 2001





Algeria







"The treatment of women raises serious questions about the level of faith and Islamic behavior on the part of the protagonists in the civil war in Algeria. Islam itself is being disfigured and perverted!"


Aicha Lemsine, Middle East Times, Cairo, March 16, 2001


 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Iran


Iran's policewomen return to the beat
Policewomen in Iran will soon be joining their male counterparts and working on the beat in Tehran. It is the first time since the 1979 revolution that women have graduated from the police training college to become fully trained officers.
BBC News, 4 October, 2003​




The importance of women in Iran's renascent film industry surprises many who believe that Islamic strictures in the country have suppressed female self-expression. The season of Iranian women's films which starts at London's Barbican on Friday should open minds, writes BBC News Online's Alex Webb, May 4, 2001.​




BBC News, 7 January 2001​




BBC News, 10 October 2000​




BBC News, 1 August 2000​




BBC News, 23 February 2000​




1997 paper by Kourosh Eshghipour.​




Avisheh Mohsnein of Illinois State University investigates the situation
of women in Iran using local women's magazines as her research material.​



Afghanistan





The plight of Afghan women has improved little since the fall of the Taleban, according to the human rights organisation Amnesty International. During the war against the Taleban, world leaders said the conflict would liberate Afghanistan's women, yet many today are as oppressed as ever.
BBC News, 6 October, 2003​




Women are set to take the wheel in Afghanistan after a 10-year ban.
BBC, January 21, 2003​




She opened 10 clinics and four hospitals for women and children, as well as schools in rural Afghanistan for more than 17,000 students. Now Dr. Sima Samar is Deputy premier of Afghanistan.
BBC News, Thursday, 6 December, 2001​




Army general and Afghanistan's most respected surgeon, Dr, Suhaila Seddiqi, who managed to keep working under the five years of Taleban rule, is now Afghanistan's Minister of Health.
BBC News, Thursday, 6 December, 2001​

Afghanistan's new women politicians
The new transitional government of Afghanistan is especially groundbreaking for the country's women, two of whom have been elected to the de facto cabinet.
BBC News, Thursday, 6 December, 2001

Razia's reconstruction dream
Profile of an Afghan female crane driver
BBC News, Saturday, 26 January, 2002




Islam means the submission of humankind to the will of God,
not the submission of women to the will of men.​





"Things are a lot worse now, there's no security, women cannot go out, cannot express themselves, the veil has become compulsory for Muslims and Christians. If you walk on the street without a veil now you can get killed. I was insulted just standing on my balcony because my hair was showing."
BBC News, 18 August, 2003​





The Moroccan King, Mohammed VI, has announced a landmark reform to the law over women's position in the family. The changes to the personal status code would give women greater rights on matters covering marriage and divorce.
BBC News, 11 October, 2003​



 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
After all this, you have to ask yourself, and each one of you, why women in your country are converting to islam even they hear what you hear, they see what you see. They are not dumb, they are well educated and they knew, it's the truth. Read why they chose islam.


Women Converts to Islam
Marwa's conversion story
How a headstrong Slovakian teenager found solace and contentment in Islam.


Finding My Way….Lynette Wehner's conversion to Islam
How a spiritually dissatisfied American Catholic teacher found fulfillment and direction through her new job at a Muslim school.


Karla's conversion to Islam
"How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?" - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.


More in Hawai'i turn to Islam
Less than three weeks after terrorists struck New York City and Washington, US Navy petty officer Heather Ramaha stood among a group of women at the mosque in Manoa and converted to Islam
By Mary Kaye Ritz, Honolulu Advertiser, November 11, 2001.


The conversion to Islam of Karima Burns
This Iowa student of Arabic became a Muslim in her heart when she started reading the Quran in order do to her university homework and couldn't put it down.


Oum Abdul-Aziz
An American former "born again" Christian explains how her in-depth theological studies led her to reject the Christian doctrines of Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus and Original Sin and to embrace pure monotheism in Islam. Contains detailed references from the Bible and Quran.


Amina's story
Irish lady recounts her long and slow spiritual journey culminating in her conversion from Catholicism to Islam during the summer of 2001


'My Dream Came True'
Detroit-based African American journalist and PR woman, Angelene McLaren, has been a Muslim for six years. Upon conversion she took the new name Sumayyah bint Joan. Here she records her encounter with Islam.


My personal decision for God and Islam
The conversion story of Anja from Germany
"I was quite amused by the thought, that actually there are still people around, who follow a law from the Middle Ages." But over a period of two and a half years, this university student grew to take Islam very seriously.


Aminah Assilmi - Part 1
This American lady, a former radical feminist and Southern Baptist from Oklahoma, studied the Quran, Sahih Muslim and fifteen other books on Islam in an attempt to convert the Arabs in her college class to Christianity and "save those poor ignorant heathens from the fires of hell." But guess what happened!

Former Baptist explains why she is now a Muslim
The Aminah Assilmi Story - Part 2
By Rebecca Simmons, Abilene Reporter-News, Saturday, November 1, 1997


Why I embraced Islam
by Maryum Jameelah (formerly Margaret Marcus),
an American Jew who convert to Islam in the late 1950's.


Monica
A former Catholic from Ecuador now living in the United States who was attracted to Islam by the peacefulness of Muslim prayer and the practical guidance Islam provides for living daily life.


Joanne Richards
How a Californian woman with a "fast and loose" lifestyle gradually found her way to Islam.


Twelve Hours Old
Canadian convert Katherine Bullock marvels at becoming a Muslim.


Khadijah 'Sue' Watson
A former Protestant fundamentalist pastor, missionary and Bible College lecturer with a Master's degree in Divinity. Her contact with a convert to Islam prompted her to seriously investigate Islam and to conclude that "many Christians are sincere but they are sincerely wrong".


Phreddie
The remarkable, powerful testimony, full on insights, of a black American Christian girl whose studies of the Bible and Church history studies left her shocked at the "hypocrisy, blasphemy, and human tampering with holy scriptures". Impressed by the respect Islam shows to women, she became a Muslim at the age of only 18.

Zainab
Young American, Protestant Sunday School teacher and youth ministries activist who had great difficulty with the Christian doctrine of "justification through faith " [good or bad deeds are irrelevant to one's salvation]. She also found that her concept of Godly living regarding dating, alcohol, clubbing, etc. was shared by her Muslim acquaintances, not her Christian friends.


Karen
How a devout American Catholic with nagging doubts came to Islam.

Karima Slack Razi
The journey of an American feminist
from secular humanism to Islam.


Kari Ann Owen, Ph.D.
San Francisco writer of Spanish Jewish ancestry who discovered Islam while researching a play.


Sharon's Story
From confused Christian and teenage runaway to contented Muslima.


Tara Dahane's story of Conversion to Islam
This American non-denominational Christian lady discovered Islam
through her Moroccan pen pal who became her husband.


Sakinah
When this Catholic lady's husband abruptly announced that he had become a Muslim, she left him... then later slowly found her own way to Islam. A remarkable story with a twist in the tail.


Deanne's homepage
Site of a young Australian lady who embraced Islam at the age of 19.


Diana
This Colorado member of the Campus Crusade for Christ, troubled by Christian teachings on Jesus, was impressed by the Muslim way of worship and the logic of Islam .


Belief-O-Matic Quiz
Even if YOU don't know what faith you are, Belief-O-Matic knows. Answer 20 questions about your concept of God, the afterlife, human nature, and more, and Belief-O-Matic will tell you what religion (if any) you practice...or ought to consider practicing.


http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Converts

They weren't blind, it's not brainwashing, it's not about money, it's not about culture.

It's about the truth, it's about, ISLAM.​
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Women in Islam



"Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."


From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed
saws.gif



The true teachings of Islam on women's issues plus web sites by Muslim women.

women.2.jpg


It is said that four out of every five Western converts to Islam are women.


Find out why. http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm

 

Laila

Active Member
Snowbear said:
Thank you very much Laila for your straightforward answers :)

Is the scenario of men not being the sole providers true only in Western societies, or is that the case in the Middle East as well?

If all of a woman's male relatives are killed by so-called 'ethnic cleansing' or war, who takes care of her and her remaining female relatives? I'm sure they would get the whole inheritance, since there are no males left. But my question actually pertains more to the societies where women are not allowed to drive or work or in some cases even leave their own homes without a related male escort.... the inheritance can only go so far.... unless there is a new husband available to step in, who is charged with taking care of her?

Snow bear what you've got to understand is that the Quran sets the parameters for an ideal society. Now if there are changes in society which there has been and will be in the far future. The parameters in the Noble Quran don't change, but our views, understanding and application of them change. People who read the Quran are aware of this. Islam has always required its faithful to concretely and rationally think their relation with the world and with current society.

The Quran is for Muslims, the Word of God. In this sense, therefore, the Quran represents for them an absolute word that gives and takes meaning beyond the events and contingencies of history (God is all knowledgable). Islamic Jurists are thinking out an up to date legislation which is drawn from the fundamental sources (Quran and Sunna) but which is at the same time really in tune with our time. I think this should answer all your WHAT IF's - Muslims will adapt to any new situation but they will always be true to the Quran to the best of their ability. If men in the Middle East abdicate their Islamic duty to women, I doubt the women will not take action, and God is the best of carers and providers.

How/when do you think views about women changed in England? Women were only appreciated during the 2nd Word War when men realised that actually they are doing a good job looking after their children, the Country and in some cases even exceeding men in their performance. Before that women didn't have all the rights they now have in this time. 14 centuries old Islamic legislation had already given women the right to vote, the right to an education and high status.
O humankind! Be in awe of your Lord and Sustainer, He who created you all from a single soul, and created from it its mate, and from the two of them brought forth many men and women. Be in awe of Allah and of the wombs (that bore you). Surely Allah is watching over you. - Noble Quran Surah 4 verse 1.

Taken from Hadith (Sunna);
I asked, "Messenger of Allah, to whom should I be dutiful?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then whom?" He replied, "Your mother." I asked, "Then to whom should I be dutiful?" He replied, "Your father,and then the next closest relative and then the next."

"Stay with [your mother], because Paradise is at her feet."
 

Laila

Active Member
jmoum said:
Thanks Snowbear, just checking. I thought it was a really compelling argument and it would be a shame if it was overlooked. :angel2:

Thanks for being fair jmourm.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Laila said:
Snow bear what you've got to understand is that the Quran sets the parameters for an ideal society. Now if there are changes in society which there has been and will be in the far future. The parameters in the Noble Quran don't change, but our views, understanding and application of them change. People who read the Quran are aware of this. Islam has always required its faithful to concretely and rationally think their relation with the world and with current society.
Actually, I have understood this. Apparently much more so than you have been able to infer form my posts. I also understand that I am a poor communicator :shrug:
Laila said:
I think this should answer all your WHAT IF's - Muslims will adapt to any new situation but they will always be true to the Quran to the best of their ability. If men in the Middle East abdicate their Islamic duty to women, I doubt the women will not take action, and God is the best of carers and providers.
I noticed this general 'ability to adapt' in the many articles that TT posted.....

The Muslim women in Western societies are enjoying the results ~ such as a chaplain and officers in the US military, judge, doctorate degrees ~ of opportunities and freedoms ... and it is NOT due to religion. Why are these 'first' muslimahs so special that they make the news? Because of the lack ofoppresion by religion.

Then I start looking over the articles about Muslim women in countries (mostly Middle East) whose government is very much influenced by and based on the Islam religion. These articles are celebrating women lamenting for or in some cases fighting for basic human rights such as the right to live, education, leaving the house without an escort....

You and TT are telling me it's about society, not about Islam. But the trend I'm seeing in TT's posted articles as well as the posts in other threads on this forum, in the media, on the internet (including 'pro-Islam,' 'anti-Islam' and 'neutral'), and in books is not consistent with what you guys are telling me. Those mostly Muslim societies have been led by and justified by men who have based their leadership, societies practices and laws, both traditional and newer, on the Quran and other teachings of Islam. No wonder it seems like such a big deal in the media when women win basic freedoms like the right not to be killed based on her society's Islam-based laws!
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Dear Snowbear, the Quran, hadith, etc are clear enough and spread wide that anyone in the world can see. You can check it and tell me where God said don't let your daughters get any knowledge, don't let them learn, kill them if they are pregnant, don't let them vote, etc. Is there any hidden law of islam or somthing????????

You will never find such a thing in the law of God almighty (s.w.t.) nor in the teaching of prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" but ONLY in the mind of those people who chose to adopt their old customs and culture even if it was against islam and the law of God.

As i said before i was in Saudi Arabia and i hate how some issues goes there but they are improving, when you ask them why you do that or that, they won't say it's because of islam but they will say this is what we used to do in our country and this is how our society must be. Nevertheless, there is a huge enlightment overthere and if you could read arabic i would post for you some links from their daily newspapers.

Believe me, Laila, me and many others are not telling a lie. If there was somthing wrong in islam toward women, you wouldn't find your fellow western women embrace islam. Somthing wrong in societies and it happen that they are muslims but that doesn't mean, if they did somthing bad so you will come for instance saying, Aha seeeee thier religion is islam and they did that, that and that. This is a prejudice. People make mistakes and they are not perfect, but that doesn't mean they are doing what they do because God told them to do so.

For instance, those who make terrorists attacks and kill even their fellow muslims (can you imagine that!) in Saudi Arabia. They claim they are doing it for the sake of God. When you ask them where did God tell to kill people like that, they reply, as long as Saudi Arabia is a friend to USA for instance so it's ok to kill anyone in this government. This is crazy but true. They just want to jusify their acts. They are misguided but they have been brainwashed by people who have hidden agenda (i.e. political).

Believe me, it's so easy to paint any religion or belief by the actions of it's followers but, is ethical and good thing to do so? is it fair?

For example, when a muslim steal or rape, etc and they come in the news and say a muslim did that or that, what if a christian did the very same act and they just said, this guy and his name is .... did ..... (full stop). This is what i mean, when muslims do good things, most of people will be blind toward it but once muslims do bad stuff because of their ignorance so everyone will stand and say ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa this is what Islam is all about !!!!!!!!!! :faint:
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
The Truth said:
Believe me, it's so easy to paint any religion or belief by the actions of it's followers but, is ethical and good thing to do so? is it fair?
Yes, it IS easy to do that.... Just as it is easy to try to paint any religion or belief as good with a few positive articles. But actually, I am trying NOT to do this. I'm not speaking of specific or isolated instances (like Saudi Arabia), but as I noted in my previous post - even in the articles you posted, I'm seeing a TREND.
The Truth said:
This is what i mean, when muslims do good things, most of people will be blind toward it but once muslims do bad stuff because of their ignorance so everyone will stand and say ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa this is what Islam is all about !!!!!!!!!! :faint:
I didn't say, ahaaaaaaaaaa this is what Islam is all about!!! TT, I'm not that stupid, despite your repeated attempts to imply such.

And yes, I do understand that different people interpret the Quran differently (if that were not the case, there would not be Muslims killing Muslims over differing interpretations, would there ;)). I also understand that these interpretations as well as their implementation can and occasionally do change.

Again, I'm not speaking of isolated incidents or individuals or even groups.
Of course I know there are good people and evil people in ANY religion.
I'm also not talking about the extremist terrorist organisations that exist solely to wreak holy war terror on both the infidels and the muslims who are not of their sect (i.e. Sunnis and Shiites).

It's not JUST Saudi Arabia. Or Pakistan. Or Iraq. But when we see over and over and over in country after country after country the Islamic-based governments making, enforcing and justifying oppressive laws based on their religious beliefs, surely you can see that it does very much give that impression?

This impression is probably even stronger to the Westerners whose government is mandated to be seperate from religion, where religious freedom and freedom of speech are mandated. Where people cannot be taxed or imprisoned or even executed solely because they don't follow a particular religion... or worse, if they convert from the government-approved religion to a 'rival' religion :eek:

While I understand the Quran may not actually state that a woman who does not wear a hijab will be punished, the laws of tradition or society that outline a punishment are surely justified based on the Quran's mandate that women wear it? (this is just an example to attempt to illustrate my point).

Again, I realize this is not universal to Muslims. But from what I read and see via the media, it is much more widespread than just a few isolated instances or even a single country or two. Even the articles you posted to try to make a different point supported what I'm saying here. If the laments of opression or small victories gained by the muslimahs in your articles were based only on a society or tradition, then there would be no need for those articles to focus on the religious affiliation of the women in the articles. But because the oppression by the society is consistently justified using the religion, then when the women under that religious regime gain a small victory, it is a VERY big deal.

I apologize for my poor communication skills. I thank you for your patience and I do hope all this typing helps to illustrate what I'm trying to understand?
 

Jerrell

Active Member
Djamila said:
Women in Islam are not less than human, quite the opposite actually. At the time Islam was revealed, the rights it provided for women were unique in the world. It is only in the last 200 years that Christian women have achieved what Muslim women were given more than a millenium ago; and it is only in the last 100 years that secular states in the West have surpassed what Islam brought for women.

It's still common in Bosnia and Herzegovina for religious mixed couples to raise their daughters as Muslims and their sons in the other faith, because it is culturally and historically understood that Islam empowers women. That may be less true today, but it at the very lease reflects the history of Islam and women's rights.

In many Moslem countries today such as Iraq, Iran, Afgahnistan, And Pakistand, Women are less than human. However in the Western World where Islam is booming, Women have the freedom to do as they wish, and are not considered half human. Christians, and Muslims that live in America in Europe (most of) them have no idea what other Christians and Muslims go through in Africa and Asia, and Ocenaia.

Many Christian Women enjoyed Freedom back in the time of the Apostles, it was not until the foundation of the Modern Catholic Church more than 300 years after Jesus' death that Women were excluded on a universal scale. If one was to pervert Christianity and to practice the law instead of love as Jesus commanded....i can understand why women were treated so badly.
 

Laila

Active Member
Snowbear said:
Actually, I have understood this. Apparently much more so than you have been able to infer form my posts. I also understand that I am a poor communicator :shrug:

I noticed this general 'ability to adapt' in the many articles that TT posted.....

The Muslim women in Western societies are enjoying the results ~ such as a chaplain and officers in the US military, judge, doctorate degrees ~ of opportunities and freedoms ... and it is NOT due to religion. Why are these 'first' muslimahs so special that they make the news? Because of the lack ofoppresion by religion.

Then I start looking over the articles about Muslim women in countries (mostly Middle East) whose government is very much influenced by and based on the Islam religion. These articles are celebrating women lamenting for or in some cases fighting for basic human rights such as the right to live, education, leaving the house without an escort....

You and TT are telling me it's about society, not about Islam. But the trend I'm seeing in TT's posted articles as well as the posts in other threads on this forum, in the media, on the internet (including 'pro-Islam,' 'anti-Islam' and 'neutral'), and in books is not consistent with what you guys are telling me. Those mostly Muslim societies have been led by and justified by men who have based their leadership, societies practices and laws, both traditional and newer, on the Quran and other teachings of Islam. No wonder it seems like such a big deal in the media when women win basic freedoms like the right not to be killed based on her society's Islam-based laws!

It is true that in many muslim countries some women are not given the rights they should have been given. This is more to do with culture, the mentality of men rather than as you correctly stated Islam (I'm glad we have cleared this). Imposing cultural views on women and then making it sound all holy and Islamic does not make it Islam. It is obvious that if something goes against the essence of Islam, Islam is not being inplemented correctly.

Women in Islam after a period of being quiet are more aware of this than anything. The truth could be said about scientists moving away from faith and people who are leaders in faith moving away from science, what Muslims once had has slowly become lost. Muslims did have a fantastic period of discovery and developement and then it almost came to a standstill. Women were very much involved in politics and society and then there progress became a little stunted. Women in this current era are becoming empowered, they are gaining what they have lost -slowly but surely. They understand there rights in Islam and when the time is right they will make a big movement to stop their oppression.

Muslim women want their power and rights from 'within'. They know that Islam gives them the rights they deserve. There is a current movement (I saw a documentary about women in Iran- a couple of months ago) of intelluctual women who are today calling for a liberation within and by Islam. In Islam there is a profound concept of balance in the relation between a man and women. This notion of complementary should not, however, justify any discrimination on the social level. Women should be allowed to work should she wish to and she should be allowed to participate in political life etc...

There is nothing wrong with accepting modernity in Islam. I believe that in the next 10 years Muslims will have made much progress (regarding the giving women the rights as stated in the Quran). However if the only model of modernity is a western one I doubt Muslim women would be interested.

I hope I've answered your question. If I haven't let me know where I've gone wrong (I'm not the best of writers) and I'll try again.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Thank you, Laila - your answer makes a lot of sense. Thank you and frubals for your patience in answering my questions :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Laila said:
It is true that in many muslim countries some women are not given the rights they should have been given. This is more to do with culture, the mentality of men rather than as you correctly stated Islam (I'm glad we have cleared this). Imposing cultural views on women and then making it sound all holy and Islamic does not make it Islam. It is obvious that if something goes against the essence of Islam, Islam is not being inplemented correctly.

Women in Islam after a period of being quiet are more aware of this than anything. The truth could be said about scientists moving away from faith and people who are leaders in faith moving away from science, what Muslims once had has slowly become lost. Muslims did have a fantastic period of discovery and developement and then it almost came to a standstill. Women were very much involved in politics and society and then there progress became a little stunted. Women in this current era are becoming empowered, they are gaining what they have lost -slowly but surely. They understand there rights in Islam and when the time is right they will make a big movement to stop their oppression.

Muslim women want their power and rights from 'within'. They know that Islam gives them the rights they deserve. There is a current movement (I saw a documentary about women in Iran- a couple of months ago) of intelluctual women who are today calling for a liberation within and by Islam. In Islam there is a profound concept of balance in the relation between a man and women. This notion of complementary should not, however, justify any discrimination on the social level. Women should be allowed to work should she wish to and she should be allowed to participate in political life etc...

There is nothing wrong with accepting modernity in Islam. I believe that in the next 10 years Muslims will have made much progress (regarding the giving women the rights as stated in the Quran). However if the only model of modernity is a western one I doubt Muslim women would be interested.

I hope I've answered your question. If I haven't let me know where I've gone wrong (I'm not the best of writers) and I'll try again.

I couldn't have said it better, myself.

Well said sis. :clap
 
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