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Islam : The LARGEST 'practiced' faith of the world?

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Well hi ,

So which is the largest "practiced" faith of the world? Numerically , Christianity is number one...but does it hold most influence on the globe? I think not.

I think that Islam has now become the largest practiced faith of the globe. Whereever Islam exists , it plays a central role in the society. Even secular Turks are very practicing Muslims generally. On the other hand , Christianity in the Europe is almost a dead religion. No one really cares about it or its teachings. Westerners are 'least practicing' people , according to the Gallop Survey on religiosity.

Even Adherents.com says that they have no reason to reject the assertion that there are more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians..

religiosity1.gif


See the result of the comprehensive gallop survey on religiosity.

Almost enitre Islamic World is "most practicing" or "more practicing" , while almost entire West is "least practicing" or "less practicing" ..which means either agnostics or non-practicing cultural followers...

Also , even in the West , Muslims are way more practicing than Christians. There are way more 'practicing Muslims' by % than practicing Christians in most Western countries

For example , in countries like France , there are more practicing Muslims than Christians (Hudson institute)

The Muslim “Overtaking” of France: as Mosques and as Faithful | Real News Reporter


So in the light of all these facts , I think that today , Islam is the most influential religion of mankind ...

It has become the largest practiced global faith of the planet...

What is your say on this?

Just to cite your own source, and note:

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

Forgive me if I root just a little for unbelievers to ascend to #2 soon... :)
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Ok, So, polygamy is an allowance. do you believe that is there anywhere on the earth in this Age that we live, that it is ok to use polygamy?
Regarding marrying a girl much younger, I agree with you personally. But there are many Muslims, that believe that every single movement of Prophet Muhammad, is the way of living of a Muslim. Including walking and sitting. So, your opinion like I said, I can understand your approach, but, I don't really think that all Muslims agree with your approach. So, what I am saying is that, Quran allows 4 wives. So, you are saying that it is up to the Judgment of a Moslem when to use it. The problem is that, the Judgment of regular human beings, is generally fallible, and everyone according to His/her understanding and His/her own benefit, may decide use it or not.
Like, it seemed to me, our friend FearGod, thought it is ok to have two wives, if the wife cannot have a child and the man wants child badly. But It seemed if we change the situation around, a woman can have two husbands?


Moreover, the Polygamy is just an example, but many other laws, such as punishment laws, such as the punishment of thief, which is cutting hands, or other laws such as two women Witness equals one Man as a witness, and many other ones, are not just allowance, but commandments and a guidance to be followed, are they not?

Do you mean that god's word in the quran to cut the hand of robber is unjustice.

Do you know that robbers can kill for money,do you think it is okey to harm people and to steal their money which they have spent years in saving them.

Do you think that god's punishment for evildoers on judgement day is unjustice as why not to give them one more chance,maybe they were not sure that god do exist and they may repent if god will give them one more chance after they know that he do exist and that it wasn't just a fairy stories.

The verse in the quran

As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise. (5:38)

Followed with the verse

But whoso repenteth after his wrongdoing and amendeth, lo! Allah will relent toward him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5:39)

You can see in the 2nd verse that god is merciful and we should be so with the thief if he did so because he is in need,but if stealing is to harm people and even some robbers can kill for money,then cutting hand is a slight punishment.

The ruler Umar ibn Al-Khattab the closest friend to prophet Mohammed pbuh had order not to cut the hand of theives because they were in need.

"He used to monitor very closely the public policy and had kept the needs of the public central to his leadership approach. As second caliph of Islam, he refused to chop off the hands of the thieves because he felt he had fallen short of his responsibility to provide meaningful employment to all his subjects. As a ruler of a vast kingdom, His vision was to ensure that every one in his kingdom should sleep on a full stomach.
If a dog dies hungry on the banks of the River Euphrates, Umar will be responsible for dereliction of duty.
—(Umar)
Umar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


One example of mercy shown in this video for a muslim guy and one theif who was in need for money for food.

[youtube]JmXGL8WIEbI[/youtube]
Thief became a Muslim
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Yes I agree with you personally, but that's not the point.
Do you think that the Moslem Scholars and Leaders agree with you too? You might be aware that, ususally Moslems listen to the openions of the Scholars and Leaders.
But the discussion was about to justify that even in today's society, the rule that allows having upto 4 wives, according to some Moslems can still be used. And still there are some people that believe, it can still be applicable. Moreover, according to the stablished Islamic Traditions, the Laws of Islam (Shria) is not to be changed forever. Even if Mahdi and Christ return, they are not allowed to make even slight changes to them. So, theoligically, how would you reconcile these issues?

Islam is not based on the opinions/edicts of the so called scholars and leaders, these are the later additions and the unauthorized ones and never existed in Muhammad's time, and hence should be discarded.

Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah, the teachings explicitly given in Quran which Muhammad performed and set his followers on .
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Its not a question of changing them. These rules are fixed and allowed forever.

Having up to 4 wives is allowed. Forever. And while you can say "yes, I want 4 wives" you also have the freedom to take only 1. The Qur'an states that having 1 wife is better anyway since, if you take more than 1, you have to treat all wives equally. This means emotionally, materialistically, financially, etc.

I agree with you. Quran commands to do justice, always:

[4:136] O ye who believe! be strict in observing justice, and be witnesses for Allah, even though it be against yourselves or against parents and kindred. Whether he be rich or poor, Allah is more regardful of them both than you are. Therefore follow not low desires so that you may be able to act equitably. And if you conceal the truth or evade it, then remember that Allah is well aware of what you do.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Yes, there are some Muslims who believe it's their duty to have 4 wives. There are some men who marry girls 3 times younger than them. There are some girls who have no choice who to marry. These people exist but these people twist and spin the Qur'an and hadiths to their own satisfaction. Did Prophet marry a girl a lot younger than him? Yes he did, but he had a reason that was appropriate for the time in which he lived. Does this mean we need to repeat it in 2012? Absolutely not. This is what I mean when I say that applying Qur'an to the past adn seeing the REASON for why things are allowed then and why Muslims did what they did then is the way that we can better use our religion for the modern age. In 2012, little girls shouldnt be married to old men. In 2012, having 4 wives when you live in the USA shouldnt be practiced (and legally, it isnt anyway), etc. These things are allowances depending on the situation and the time. NOT timeless commandments. It is up to us to decide when allowances should be used and when they dont apply to us.

As I said, these are auxiliary matters, these are not the basic tenets of Islam/Quran.

Such matters which are secular,cultural and social in natures are resolved by the laws of the country one resides in; one who does not abide by them would be punished by the law of land one resides in, and correctly so, in my opinion.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Moreover, the Polygamy is just an example, but many other laws, such as punishment laws, such as the punishment of thief, which is cutting hands, or other laws such as two women Witness equals one Man as a witness, and many other ones, are not just allowance, but commandments and a guidance to be followed, are they not?[/FONT][/COLOR]

As I said such auxiliary matters are not basic tenets of our religion; and as far as if one violates the law of land one resides in are punishable under the same and rightly so, and if there is an element of injustice additionally punishable in the hereafter.

Cutting of hands for stealing is not a commandment to an individual; it is a commandment to the society.

Quran/Islam resolves such matters very clearly but its main focus is on the basic tenets.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Well, I agree regarding not commiting adultry and not drinking wine, or stealing. But do you think the physical punishments that are ordained for these, are the best way?
For example, why cutting a thief hand, instead of to force him to work hard to learn a good lesson? Why by cutting his hand, making him never to be able to work again? What if at some point he becomes a good human and wants to work and serve the society. Why not just imprison him?

Such matters are to be dealt with by the law of land one resides in; If it says one is to be fined and or imprisoned that is OK; this however does not save the punishment in the hereafter to the culprit.
 

PMderry

The Leprechaun
Do you mean that god's word in the quran to cut the hand of robber is unjustice.

Do you know that robbers can kill for money,do you think it is okey to harm people and to steal their money which they have spent years in saving them.

Do you think that god's punishment for evildoers on judgement day is unjustice as why not to give them one more chance,maybe they were not sure that god do exist and they may repent if god will give them one more chance after they know that he do exist and that it wasn't just a fairy stories.

The verse in the quran

As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise. (5:38)

Followed with the verse

But whoso repenteth after his wrongdoing and amendeth, lo! Allah will relent toward him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5:39)

You can see in the 2nd verse that god is merciful and we should be so with the thief if he did so because he is in need,but if stealing is to harm people and even some robbers can kill for money,then cutting hand is a slight punishment.

The ruler Umar ibn Al-Khattab the closest friend to prophet Mohammed pbuh had order not to cut the hand of theives because they were in need.

This is not the proper translation of this ayah. Let me copy down what I have in my Qur'an along with the commentary:

"As for the theif, whether man or woman, cut his hand as punishment from God for what he had done; and God is all mighty and all wise. But those who repent after a crime and reform, shall be forgiven by God, for God is forgiving and kind."

notes: Qata'a meas "to cut", but when used with different nouns it maens different things idiomatically, for which see Raghib and Taj al-'urus, such as to stop someone from speaking when used with lisan, tongue, or cut off the road when used with sabil, or become hopeless when used with rajul, man, etc. in 12:31, for instance, qatta'na aidihunna means they wounded their hands or stopped peeling fruit, NOT cut off their hands. Hence here, in v. 38, it could also mean to stop their hands from stealing by adopting deterrent means, for the next verse, 39, speaks of repentance and forgiveness with overtones of rehabilitation, which would be lost if the hands were cut off completely or amputated. Similarly in v. 33, tuqatta'a could mean restrain them by putting fetters no one hand and one leg. DUring the Umayyad caliphate the punishment for theft was flogging.

Arabic is an incredibly complex language and words change meaning when placed next to other words. A lot of verses in the Qur'an are misunderstood because it's been translated into English and the reader does not posess Traditional Arabic speaking skills. Another example of this is the verse about slapping ones wife. The English version often translates this as "slap" but the Arabic word daraba changes meaning depending on where it falls in the sentence. It also means "to go away from" and most Islamic scholars believe that, in the case of the wife, this verse is talking about going away from the wife, or even divorcing her--not slapping her.

I dont mean to say that you cant read the Qur'an if you dont speak Arabic, but that's almost the case. The version that you possess or look up online is not the real Qur'an. English is not nearly as complex as Arabic and there are many Arabic words that have no equivalent in English. This is why, to truly understand the Qur'an, you need Arabic skills. Otherwise you are only getting a fraction of the meaning and the translation can twist the verse to mean something it didnt originally mean.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Such matters are to be dealt with by the law of land one resides in; If it says one is to be fined and or imprisoned that is OK; this however does not save the punishment in the hereafter to the culprit.

Question: Does Quran say that such matters are to be dealt with by the law of land?
Also, is not the best law of any land the Sharia of Islam?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
As I said, these are auxiliary matters, these are not the basic tenets of Islam/Quran.

Question: Does Quran say these matters are auxiliary matters?
I believe to understand Islam, we should see what the Author of Quran says. In another word, I believe you should support your view on Islam by using the verses of Quran, otherwise how do I know what you are explaining is True Islam?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Islam is not based on the opinions/edicts of the so called scholars and leaders, these are the later additions and the unauthorized ones and never existed in Muhammad's time, and hence should be discarded.

Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah, the teachings explicitly given in Quran which Muhammad performed and set his followers on .

So, you are saying, Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah. Are you saying that Historically there were Moslem scholars and leaders who made-up certain beliefs and practices which were not Islamic, but claimed they were Islamic?
If so, the problem is that, how do Moslems agree that certain things were actually part of traditions of Muahammad or not? Do Moslems generally agree on these?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Do you mean that god's word in the quran to cut the hand of robber is unjustice.
I believe it was the best and the most just law for the Islamic period, which was 1000 years, but is not the best law that can be practiced in this Age. I believe God revealed new laws for this Age, which are better than previous revelations, and the new laws should be practiced.

As you know Allah had asked not to work on the Sabbath Day through the revelation of Moses, and He, according to Quran had turned some of people to apes because they worked on the Sabbath and did not obey Allah. If you are not aware of this, refer to Quran. The punishment for Working on Sabbath Day, was putting to death.

Question: When Allah had asked the previous people not to Work on the Sabbath, and had asked them to keep the Sabbath forever, why the Moslems do not have the Sabbath Law?
 

PMderry

The Leprechaun
Question: Does Quran say that such matters are to be dealt with by the law of land?
Also, is not the best law of any land the Sharia of Islam?

Muslims are required, by Sharaia, to follow the laws already in place in the country that they live. I am required, by Sharia, to follow the laws already in place in the United States.

Of course Muslims believe that Sharia is the best law because it's God's law. However, non-Muslims are exempt from following Sharia and Musims and non-Muslims are told to follow laws already in place. So...Sharia is only implemented in Muslim countries to Muslims. Everyone else is outside of Sharia.

This is why I want to bang my head against a wall whenever US politicians freak out about Sharia coming to the USA. It'll never happen.
 

PMderry

The Leprechaun
I believe it was the best and the most just law for the Islamic period, which was 1000 years, but is not the best law that can be practiced in this Age. I believe God revealed new laws for this Age, which are better than previous revelations, and the new laws should be practiced.


Please read my post about that aya. The Qur'an does not state to cut hands off of theives. My post is on the previous page.
 

PMderry

The Leprechaun
Question: Does Quran say these matters are auxiliary matters?

What do you mean by this? Do you mean does the Qur'an state that things like polygamy is an accessory allowance? Yes. It's not required. It's extra. It can apply or it cannot apply. The choice is the persons.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Please read my post about that aya. The Qur'an does not state to cut hands off of theives. My post is on the previous page.

Yes, I read that and I am aware of that. It seems to me only in recent years, some Moslems, (perhaps for good intention) tried to interprete these laws in such a way to adapt them and make them acceptable for our Age.
 

PMderry

The Leprechaun
Yes, I read that and I am aware of that. It seems to me only in recent years, some Moslems, (perhaps for good intention) tried to interprete these laws in such a way to adapt them and make them acceptable for our Age.

??? I dont know what you mean by this? Are you saying that this reading the Qur'an is new since Muslims were getting too much backlash for that law? If so, I disagree.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Yes, I read that and I am aware of that. It seems to me only in recent years, some Moslems, (perhaps for good intention) tried to interprete these laws in such a way to adapt them and make them acceptable for our Age.

:areyoucra you are looking to cutting hand as ugly and unjustice and that some try to adapt the verse to our new age by changing the meaning of the verse whereas you said before that muslims never accept to change the meanings of the quran and even Jesus pbuh won't able to change it,so you're contradicting yourself.

Imagine that i have usd 20000 which i saved during 10 years of hard working and suffering to send my son to college then one day a thief entered my house and stole the whole money.

Now how is my feeling and the future of my son and you are worried about the hands of that good person who have a great job which is called robbery.

What do you think of murderers,what about giving them more chances,so they may become good people,why to execute them to death.:shrug:
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
whereas you said before that muslims never accept to change the meanings of the quran and even Jesus pbuh won't able to change it,so you're contradicting yourself.

I never said it in the way you are saying.
I meant most Moslems believe that God never changes the Sharia of Islam. But I see some Moslems themselves try to change and addapt these laws to our Age.
I have seen Moslems like PMderry, even on TV as well as other internet sites, saying Quran does not say, physically cut the hand, and whoever interpretes that as physically cutting hand is wrong.
On the other hand I have seen Moslems, like you FearGod, that believes the punishment of a thief is cutting hand according to Quran.
So, I see a disagreement between Moslems, even about these clear Laws.
Now, the question is, according to Quran, the Book is a clear Book (Kitabun Mobin). Then how is it that theses clear verses appear to have different meaning, according to various Moslems?
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
??? I dont know what you mean by this? Are you saying that this reading the Qur'an is new since Muslims were getting too much backlash for that law? If so, I disagree.
Well, not necessarily only because the Moslems were getting too much backlash, but also because to some Moslems, it doesn't make sense that the Kind God, ask to cut the hand of a human for stealing, or maybe because some moslems, do not agree that it is fair or the best option to punish the thief to cut hand, so, then they say, No it cannot mean physicaly cutting.
On the other hand there has been and still are Moslem countries that actually cut the hand of thief, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. So, are you saying that they did not understand the Law of Quran?
Quran is a clear Book (Kitabun Mobin), so how is it that these clear verses appear different to people?
Anyways, just saying my openion....

- Peace
 
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