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Islam & sword

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
hi guys my lovely members of RF.



today i have an interesting topic about a sensetive issue which most non-Muslims are confused with because It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.


one may ask:
How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword? :confused:

and the answer is:
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.


What is being debated here? Is it that maybe some others will disagree?

I think I got your message disguised in all that code.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1. Islam means peace

Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (SWT). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (SWT).


2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace

Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against the criminal and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.


3. Historian De Lacy O’Leary’s opinion

De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the crossroad” (Page 8) gives the best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword: “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.”

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years

The Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim who could openly give the Azan, that is the call for prayers.


5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians



Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians, i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.


6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India

The Moghuls ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.


7. Indonesia and Malaysia

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, “Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?”


8. East Coast of Africa

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, “Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa.”


9. Reason for Spread of Islam



Even when Muslims won battles they never forced the non-Muslims to accept Islam. The behaviour, brotherhood, honesty and justice of the Muslims and the universality and practical approach of Islam were the reasons for non-Muslims to accept Islam. Islam spread a great extent by the Muslim traders and businessmen who spread in different parts of the world and whose behaviour impressed the non-Muslims.


10. Thomas Carlyle



The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book “Heroes and Hero worship”, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one, in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it; there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.’


11. No compulsion in religion

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had the sword they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion:

Truth stands out clear from error” [Al-Qur’an: 2:256]


12. Sword of the Intellect

It is the sword of intellect. It is the sword that conquers the hearts and minds of the people. The Qur’an says: “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” [Al-Qur’an:16:125]


13. Increase in the world religions from 1934 - 1984.

An article in Readers digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. Which war took place in this century, which converted millions of people to Islam?



14. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe is Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?



15. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson

Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, “People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, “it fell the day MUHAMMAD was born”. (Pbuh)
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
The Truth said:
<SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><STRONG>1. Islam means peace.<SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Um, dude there was no need for the script.:)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Malus01 said:
What is being debated here? Is it that maybe some others will disagree?

I think I got your message disguised in all that code.
Of course everyone is invited to argue in case he/she has any question about it or disagree.


Peace ... :)
 

Malus 12:9

Temporarily Deactive.
I have a few questions, I am ASKING, not stating, to prevent further misunderstandings. They are
sme what relevant.

Is there Muslim satanists? Canyou tell me more about the Berbers dudes and their ordeals in Algeria?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Malus01 said:
I have a few questions, I am ASKING, not stating, to prevent further misunderstandings. They are
sme what relevant.

Is there Muslim satanists? Canyou tell me more about the Berbers dudes and their ordeals in Algeria?
maybe there is a Muslim satanists why not if he didn't follow the rules of Islam.
and about the second part of your question ( no clue :confused: )
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
There seems to be two different schools of thought within Islam. One, being that Muslims should be peaceful. The other...

"Yesterday, London and Madrid. Tomorrow, Los Angeles and Melbourne, Allah willing. And this time, don't count on us demonstrating restraint or compassion," the tape warns. "We are Muslims. We love peace, but peace on our terms, peace as laid down by Islam, not the so-called peace of occupiers and dictators."

"We love peace, but when the enemy violates that peace or prevents us from achieving it, then we love nothing better than the heat of battle, the echo of explosion and the slitting of the throats of the infidels," the tape says.

From ABC NEWS
 

drekmed

Member
you cannot judge a religion by its extremists. the difference whether it was spread by peace or violence is not really what is important.
Christianity had extremists in charge for many years, making the decisions and policies, this is no longer the case. there are still extremist christians out there, the "Army of God" can be considered extremist in their views.
Islam may have extremist in charge of certain areas, attempting to spread through violence, but there are also those that are not extremist. Al-Queiada is the most televised extremist group, but this is a vast minority.

my point is even if a religion is spread through violence, it doesn't mean that it what the religion really stands for.

Drekmed
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
I judge a religion on how they deal with their extremists. For example, in Asatru, our extremists are typically racist, white pride people. However, every major Asatru organization has come out against them and there is a large Heathens Against Hate campaign. Every heathen I know considers it his or her obligation to fight these racists out of our ranks entirely. We take these matters seriously. I do not see the same dedication in Christian or Muslim communities. They tend sit quietly by as their extremists start holy wars and they don't do anything about it. I've heard some Muslims come out and state that they are against violence, but yet, they don't back it up with actions. I want to see as much outrage within the Muslim community at Islamic fundamentalism as I do in every other group. Until I see that, I will have my doubts.

People who want to use Asatru to further their racist goals are kicked out of their kindreds and warnings are sent through our networks, letting all other kindreds know to avoid them. We back up our words with action...which is a most heathen virtue.

Again, I understand that we all have to deal with our own extremists, that every religion has them... but the true worth and courage of our religions are shown by what we do about it. If I don't see anything being done, then I tend to think that the people talking are liars. What other conclusion could I draw?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Darkdale said:
I judge a religion on how they deal with their extremists. For example, in Asatru, our extremists are typically racist, white pride people. However, every major Asatru organization has come out against them and there is a large Heathens Against Hate campaign. Every heathen I know considers it his or her obligation to fight these racists out of our ranks entirely. We take these matters seriously. I do not see the same dedication in Christian or Muslim communities. They tend sit quietly by as their extremists start holy wars and they don't do anything about it. I've heard some Muslims come out and state that they are against violence, but yet, they don't back it up with actions. I want to see as much outrage within the Muslim community at Islamic fundamentalism as I do in every other group. Until I see that, I will have my doubts.

People who want to use Asatru to further their racist goals are kicked out of their kindreds and warnings are sent through our networks, letting all other kindreds know to avoid them. We back up our words with action...which is a most heathen virtue.

Again, I understand that we all have to deal with our own extremists, that every religion has them... but the true worth and courage of our religions are shown by what we do about it. If I don't see anything being done, then I tend to think that the people talking are liars. What other conclusion could I draw?
I agree Darkdale; The extremists need to be put in line by the 'moderates'. I also have to agree that this trend of not dealing with the extremists is also prevalent in the Christian community.

As far as Muslim moderates in England are concerned, they may call themselves moderates, but some have declared in public that they would do nothing about reporting another Muslim, even if he was aware that his neighbour was planning a terrorist attack.
 

blueman

God's Warrior
The Truth said:
hi guys my lovely members of RF.



today i have an interesting topic about a sensetive issue which most non-Muslims are confused with because It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.


one may ask:
How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword? :confused:

and the answer is:
Truth, although the message of Islam is peace and has resonated with a number of people based on their own free will and acceptance of the message, are you denying that it's initial conversions as promulgated by Mohammed and followers was not done by force, but in peace?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Darkdale said:
There seems to be two different schools of thought within Islam. One, being that Muslims should be peaceful. The other...





From ABC NEWS
Thanks Be to God and Christian Terrorists
We may hear quite a lot about the government's fight against Muslim terrorists, but what about Christian terrorists? There was a time that three of the FBI's top ten most wanted criminals were antiabortion terrorists - Christians, one and all, committing acts of terrorism in an effort to promote their religious beliefs. Why have they dropped off the radar?
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/055922.htm


The recent terrorist strikes in the USA on September 11, 2001, in which the World Trade Centre and Pentagon were "crash-bombed" by large airplanes, have brought a new resolve in the global community to root out terrorism from all parts of the world. The Americans are playing a leading role in building a world coalition against terrorism. This is the best time to remind the Americans that Baptist Christian terrorists are active in India's North-East and they derive their financial support from the southern parts of the USA where the Baptist Church has a strong following. Funds are collected in the form of donations in various church establishments in the name of evangelical work. Some of this money is spent in true philanthropic work of spreading education and healthcare. However, it has been suspected for a long time that a part of this fund gets diverted for buying arms for the Baptist terrorists of the North-East. Our ex-Chief Election Commissioner, T.N. Seshan, gave voice to this suspicion in a television panel discussion on Doordarshan as early as in 1993.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0703/107.html



Last week, before a cheering throng at a Dallas Christian youth Center, George II claimed that God chose him to lead America. Glad that has been cleared up. For the longest time, I wondered how he got the job.

George is on a Mission >From God, you know. To kill. Must be an Old Testament thing, because I don't recall Jesus having exhorted his Disciples to kill in God's name.

Most internet followers now have heard of very recent US preparations taking place in Europe - the sort of preparations that precede America's wading into yet another small, defenseless Arab country in pursuit of Israeli Middle East hegemony.

It appears that George II's reluctance to undergo another Afghanistan or Iraq prior to next year's election somehow has been overcome. Seems he has learned nothing from his plummeting poll numbers. Or, like the chronic gambler, perhaps he is thinking, "Just one more roll of the dice...then my number will come up...then I'll be a winner...just one more roll..."


http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/onwardchristianterrorists.htm


With the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza Strip settlements imminent, one ultra-nationalist Israeli army deserter went berserk in a bus in the northern Arab-Israeli town of Shafa Amro and killed four people before being bludgeoned to death on August

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:-ZAsUhN14DQJ:www.palestinereport.org/article.php%3Farticle%3D872+shafa+amro&hl=en
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
michel said:
I agree Darkdale; The extremists need to be put in line by the 'moderates'. I also have to agree that this trend of not dealing with the extremists is also prevalent in the Christian community.

As far as Muslim moderates in England are concerned, they may call themselves moderates, but some have declared in public that they would do nothing about reporting another Muslim, even if he was aware that his neighbour was planning a terrorist attack.
yes .. some which means ofcourse "not all".


Peace ... :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
blueman said:
Truth, although the message of Islam is peace and has resonated with a number of people based on their own free will and acceptance of the message, are you denying that it's initial conversions as promulgated by Mohammed and followers was not done by force, but in peace?
Go to post number 3 please and you will understand.

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace



Peace ... :)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The Truth said:
yes .. some which means ofcourse "not all".
We both understand that you've evaded Darkdale's point.
We both understand that you've avoided my question about Dhimmitude.

You are simply proselyizing in a debate forum.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
We both understand that you've evaded Darkdale's point.
We both understand that you've avoided my question about Dhimmitude.

You are simply proselyizing in a debate forum.
i supposed to apologize for you not because i was trying to avoid your words but i couldn't understand what did you mean by that word because my background is arabic so i was looking after it and i found out that it means in arabic Zimmi (Arabic &#1584;&#1605;&#1617;&#1610;).

Zimmi (Arabic &#1584;&#1605;&#1617;&#1610;): is a person living in a Muslim state who is a member of an officially tolerated non-Islamic religion. The term literally means person of the dhimma.

So, do you have any question about it dear Jayhawker? :)
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Darkdale said:
I judge a religion on how they deal with their extremists.
I agree with Jayhawker. That is a wonderful and stunning way of looking at things.

(Thanks for the link, too. I wonder if any Pagan can join, or if it's only the Heathens. :eek:) (I'm trying to honor that they prefer the term to only be used with that form of Paganism, which is kind of awkward when you have a habit of referring to yourself as a heathen, hehee!)
 
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