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Islam is the most misunderstood religion in contemporary society

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
"The secular mind is deeply entrenched with the idea that Islam is a system of beliefs where fanaticism and moderate devotion to a supernatural deity is indistinguishable."

-Epic Beard Man


I began that quote from listening to an hour and twenty-three minute video of Karen Armstrong giving a lecture regarding the secular views of Islam today. According to Karen Armstrong, the "bed rock message of the Qur'an is it is good to share your wealth fairly, and wrong to horde a private fortune, and the aim of life is to build a just and decent society where vulnerable people are treated with equity and respect." In Ms. Armstrong's lecture, she brings up a good point where in viewing other religions we tend to view them through the lens of Protestant Christianity, where religion is considered as a separate activity. Hence in the west we see Protestant Christianity as a benchmark in which we judge all others. This is why Buddhism and Confucianism are considered "secular ideologies" but according to Armstrong, the Buddha and Confucius would have not understood secularism as we see it.

Unfortunately, throughout the years (actually centuries) Islam has been presented by the west as a blood thirsty religion bent on Holy War, or Jihad to commence the campaign of Dar al-Islam. The western viewpoint of Jihad is the misunderstanding (whether intentional or unintentional) of Quranic interpretation of a holy struggle of the self. Jihad is the constant battle from within and in fact according to Islam, the constant battle from within is the greatest form of Jihad. Jihad appears in the Qur'an only 44 times and in 10 of those does it refer to warfare. Jihad is a struggle. Ms. Armstrong cites some examples regarding what it means to struggle such as for instance it being a struggle to give someone something to eat because they are hungry when you yourself are hungry. Do you give in to your own senses and biological desires or do you transcend beyond that and do the selfless act and give to the starving person.

In the west we turn on our television and watch news outlets of ISIL (or ISIS) or other terrorist organizations who commit acts of violence such as bombings and suicide bombings and the fervor or these groups who vehemently believe what they're doing is for God. It is historical fact that suicide bombings was not invented by Muslim extremists in fact, it was an invention by the Tamil Tigers, an extremely secular organization. According to Armstrong, though we see the early bombings happening in Lebanon committed by Shi'ites, most attacks during the 1980's in Lebanon and Jordan were done by secularists and socialists and secularists from Syria 7 suicide bombings were done by Muslims and 27 were done by secularists. Suicide bombings is strictly unIslamic and many Muslim scholars cite several verses but one verse is more popular when responding to critics concerning suicide bombings:

Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32).

When it comes to violence of this type in looking at the actions of these Muslims who commit these violent acts, we must look at the root cause of these actions. Because what we see are people who believe that their country is invaded by a power more advanced in weaponry than the people. Coupled this with doctrinal ignorance, low education, hopelessness, limited resources, desperation, and a fiery and fanatical Imam, you have a recipe for disaster. There is something inherently wrong when a child who has never lived life expresses glee in the manner that some of these kids do, when they see their violent causes as something for "The Lord of the Worlds." The problem I see when people examine Islam is that we tend to see Islam from a Western perspective. I mean, we do this with a lot of people. Instead of asking why, we need to be asking how? How does the psychopathology of someone who is desperately trying to kill themselves and others develop? Where do people get these ideas?

People do not examine the perspective of the other by stepping outside themselves, and even though some do, they still place their western perspective in scenarios like "even if I was in that situation I would do such and such, and such and such." No, you wouldn't because if you were in that scenario you would not be having a western perspective on life or having the perspective of life that you have now, you'd have their perspective. I tend to ask myself when looking at the violence that is happening in the world in that sector I wonder what is compounding the violent ideologies? I firmly believe it is the socio-political infrastructures that over time have become unstable and paralyzed in time due to a collective effort of outside forces (western influences of warfare e.g. think CIA influence on the Taliban fighting Russians).

When it comes to the religious interpretation of he Qur'an like Judaism and the reading of the Talmud, the Qur'an is read through a filtration system such as the Imam or the Hadith. People often ask "what is the correct interpretation of Islam?" I would answer from an outsider's perspective it depends where you are in the world. For many impoverished Palestinians, their interpretation of Islam is a lot different than the perspective of Muslims who live in Detroit or New York. Just as the perspective of an Irish Christian would be different religiously than the perspective of a Taiwanese Christian. Our environment can be our x-factor in how we see ourselves in the world from a religious perspective.

What is the correct way to look at Islam?

Any faith that promotes good, justice, and equality, and promotes self-growth and excellence and the fair treatment of others which is the baseline of Islam, is the correct way of looking at Islam.
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
While I think Karen Armstrong often has her heart in the right place, she often seems to indulge in loosely supported, murky or muddled views of religion. At least that's my take on her.
I agree. I've read several of her books and she paints this lovely, glowing picture of Islam and practically drools all over Muhammad. She is simply misinformed or disingenuous - to the extreme. She is probably one of the last people I would seek information on Islam from. She is certainly no scholar and not noted for her historical accuracy. It really shows in what she leaves out. I did giggle a bit when she referred to Muhammad as someone who was occasionally a petty warlord. *snort*

In regards to the OP, the biggest problem is that Islamic literature/scripture is incredibly dense. Reading hadiths can be absolutely mind-numbing, as is reading the endless prattling by clerics who have a penchant for flogging topics to death a billion ways. The real problem is that non-Muslims do not look upon Islam as any kind of beacon of understanding as the Muslim world has lagged behind, in virtually any area you wish to examine, for so long that it's hard to take a religion seriously that has produced such miserable results. Heck, the only reason Islam has gained a resurgence is because many are sitting on large oil deposits that other people have grown addicted to.
 
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What is the correct way to look at Islam?

Any faith that promotes good, justice, and equality, and promotes self-growth and excellence and the fair treatment of others which is the baseline of Islam, is the correct way of looking at Islam.

Islam is obviously a multifacted and diverse tradition that is and has been practiced in numerous ways. It is a tradition that has evolved and developed and changed over the centuries.

Just as it would be wrong to claim violent fundamentalism and intolerant fanaticism as 'correct', it is also wrong to claim a more 'liberal' version as 'correct'.

In many of its forms it has not promoted 'good, justice, equality and fair treatment' for non-Muslims, and finds good theological support for this. Historically, the concept of jihad has indeed been used to support wars of aggression, and its meaning of 'holy war', while not the only meaning, is certainly an important one.

The correct way to look at Islam is to appreciate the range of views and histories that are all legitimately part of the Islamic tradition and to contextualise these into a broader reflection on religion, philosophy and history. It is not 'correct' to either demonise Islam/Muslims or to ignore the less palatable aspects of its history.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
It's hard to view a religion without considering its historical activities since its founding. This applies to any religion and any ideology. We shouldn't ignore the effect a belief system has had on the world.

That is only possible if you have an exact control situation — If you have two exact cultural groups, wherein one group gets a religious teaching and another none.

We are animals and some are more savage than others. I believe that religious teachings help to constrain our animal savage nature.
 

Frater Sisyphus

Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
I don't have many qualms about Islam itself (as I don't associate Terrorist extremist groups with the religion) but Allah in the Quran seems far more egocentric than even Yahweh!
Just an observation of mine, I do find that with the concept of Theism - that a self-conscious God would absolutely be full of themselves, so I don't find it that hard to believe. The morals seem extensively "to Allah, for Allah, always Allah" for me personally, but again that's just me.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Too many wars/disputes relate to religious arguments.
From Israel v Arab to Anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage; they are all based on religion.

These so called wars have nothing to do with spiritual quest of individuals but have everything to do with greed of people. Greed and need to oppress are exactly the opposite of spiritual needs.

YMMV.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"The secular mind is deeply entrenched with the idea that Islam is a system of beliefs where fanaticism and moderate devotion to a supernatural deity is indistinguishable."

-Epic Beard Man


I began that quote from listening to an hour and twenty-three minute video of Karen Armstrong giving a lecture regarding the secular views of Islam today. According to Karen Armstrong, the "bed rock message of the Qur'an is it is good to share your wealth fairly, and wrong to horde a private fortune, and the aim of life is to build a just and decent society where vulnerable people are treated with equity and respect." In Ms. Armstrong's lecture, she brings up a good point where in viewing other religions we tend to view them through the lens of Protestant Christianity, where religion is considered as a separate activity. Hence in the west we see Protestant Christianity as a benchmark in which we judge all others. This is why Buddhism and Confucianism are considered "secular ideologies" but according to Armstrong, the Buddha and Confucius would have not understood secularism as we see it.

Unfortunately, throughout the years (actually centuries) Islam has been presented by the west as a blood thirsty religion bent on Holy War, or Jihad to commence the campaign of Dar al-Islam. The western viewpoint of Jihad is the misunderstanding (whether intentional or unintentional) of Quranic interpretation of a holy struggle of the self. Jihad is the constant battle from within and in fact according to Islam, the constant battle from within is the greatest form of Jihad. Jihad appears in the Qur'an only 44 times and in 10 of those does it refer to warfare. Jihad is a struggle. Ms. Armstrong cites some examples regarding what it means to struggle such as for instance it being a struggle to give someone something to eat because they are hungry when you yourself are hungry. Do you give in to your own senses and biological desires or do you transcend beyond that and do the selfless act and give to the starving person.

In the west we turn on our television and watch news outlets of ISIL (or ISIS) or other terrorist organizations who commit acts of violence such as bombings and suicide bombings and the fervor or these groups who vehemently believe what they're doing is for God. It is historical fact that suicide bombings was not invented by Muslim extremists in fact, it was an invention by the Tamil Tigers, an extremely secular organization. According to Armstrong, though we see the early bombings happening in Lebanon committed by Shi'ites, most attacks during the 1980's in Lebanon and Jordan were done by secularists and socialists and secularists from Syria 7 suicide bombings were done by Muslims and 27 were done by secularists. Suicide bombings is strictly unIslamic and many Muslim scholars cite several verses but one verse is more popular when responding to critics concerning suicide bombings:

Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32).

When it comes to violence of this type in looking at the actions of these Muslims who commit these violent acts, we must look at the root cause of these actions. Because what we see are people who believe that their country is invaded by a power more advanced in weaponry than the people. Coupled this with doctrinal ignorance, low education, hopelessness, limited resources, desperation, and a fiery and fanatical Imam, you have a recipe for disaster. There is something inherently wrong when a child who has never lived life expresses glee in the manner that some of these kids do, when they see their violent causes as something for "The Lord of the Worlds." The problem I see when people examine Islam is that we tend to see Islam from a Western perspective. I mean, we do this with a lot of people. Instead of asking why, we need to be asking how? How does the psychopathology of someone who is desperately trying to kill themselves and others develop? Where do people get these ideas?

People do not examine the perspective of the other by stepping outside themselves, and even though some do, they still place their western perspective in scenarios like "even if I was in that situation I would do such and such, and such and such." No, you wouldn't because if you were in that scenario you would not be having a western perspective on life or having the perspective of life that you have now, you'd have their perspective. I tend to ask myself when looking at the violence that is happening in the world in that sector I wonder what is compounding the violent ideologies? I firmly believe it is the socio-political infrastructures that over time have become unstable and paralyzed in time due to a collective effort of outside forces (western influences of warfare e.g. think CIA influence on the Taliban fighting Russians).

When it comes to the religious interpretation of he Qur'an like Judaism and the reading of the Talmud, the Qur'an is read through a filtration system such as the Imam or the Hadith. People often ask "what is the correct interpretation of Islam?" I would answer from an outsider's perspective it depends where you are in the world. For many impoverished Palestinians, their interpretation of Islam is a lot different than the perspective of Muslims who live in Detroit or New York. Just as the perspective of an Irish Christian would be different religiously than the perspective of a Taiwanese Christian. Our environment can be our x-factor in how we see ourselves in the world from a religious perspective.

What is the correct way to look at Islam?

Any faith that promotes good, justice, and equality, and promotes self-growth and excellence and the fair treatment of others which is the baseline of Islam, is the correct way of looking at Islam.
I don't find Karen Armstrong very convincing. I often find her views on religions to be wildly inaccurate. I would prefer if the information comes from a recognized and accredited Islamic theologian from the Hanafi school for instance.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
These so called wars have nothing to do with spiritual quest of individuals but have everything to do with greed of people. Greed and need to oppress are exactly the opposite of spiritual needs.

YMMV.
Can you expand on that? What has 'greed' got to do with gay marriage or abortion?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
These so called wars have nothing to do with spiritual quest of individuals but have everything to do with greed of people. Greed and need to oppress are exactly the opposite of spiritual needs.

YMMV.

Altfish didn't say it was to do with "spiritual quest of individuals". That this is not the factor involved does not mean religion is not either a contributing or causal factor in some conflicts. The sectarian violence between Muslims of different denominations; the European Wars of Religion - a nearly continuous 100 years of bloodshed between Catholics & Protestants; the Indian Wars in America; the colonialism European countries engaged in in Africa & Australia; the Yellow Turban Rebellion against the Eastern Han Dynasty; the cyclical purging of Confucians, Daoists & Buddhists from Imperial courts and places of power in China over thousands of years; State Shinto in the Japanese Empire.

These conflicts were started or exacerbated by the presence of religious beliefs.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
...
Unfortunately, throughout the years (actually centuries) Islam has been presented by the west as a blood thirsty religion bent on Holy War, or Jihad to commence the campaign of Dar al-Islam.
...
Any faith that promotes good, justice, and equality, and promotes self-growth and excellence and the fair treatment of others which is the baseline of Islam, is the correct way of looking at Islam.

I don't think it has to do with the west as much as it is Islam being presented as a religion of peace while Shiites blow up Sunni Mosques and visa versa. Or Isis killing every muslim they find.

No different that presenting the love of Jesus while Northern Ireland Catholics kill Southern Ireland Protestants.

The West has nothing to do with either.
 

outlawState

Deism is dead
Any faith that promotes good, justice, and equality, and promotes self-growth and excellence and the fair treatment of others which is the baseline of Islam, is the correct way of looking at Islam
I don't think so. You are ignoring the cornerstone of Islam's rebellion against true faith which is to disown the son of God and his authority over what constitutes faith at all. As the book of James says, even the Devil believes in God.

Whatever way in which you misrepresent the Quran, concealing its unpalatable parts or overemphasizing its more sensible parts, the Quran is not the ultimate word because it repudiates the Old Testament and disowns the new. It makes the world's estimated 2.2 billion Christians to be fools. Moreover we all know where the Quranic idea of Allah came from. It derives from Ba'al, (with many modifications) and not YHWH of the Israelites. Allah and YHWH are not the same God.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
As someone who's god is loosely represented contemporarily by a Marvel superhero, I greatly beg to differ. (Also having heard many Muslims from the Middle East speak on things that Islam is criticized for secularly)
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
So being based on a Marvel character makes you an authority?

Also, research the term taqiyya. Muslims are allowed to lie about their faith. After that, you have a Boy who cried Wolf scenario, where nothing theysay is trustworthy.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
It's hard to view a religion without considering its historical activities since its founding. This applies to any religion and any ideology. We shouldn't ignore the effect a belief system has had on the world.

I'm not denying we should ignore anything but we must concede that if we are to look at the broader scope at a thing, we need to accord the same for all popular religions in history and this is not so done by the average person. The academic perspective requires the above suggestion, but the average person does not afford Islam that, rather, they afford Islam the unfair association of what is seen on fox news or any biased media outlet.
 
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