Islam is a false religion per Quran itself.

[Link]

Salam

The Quran endorses Musa, Haroun... Isa.. in Bani-Israel. So how can it say Judaism and Christianity is false?

Surah Baqara shows from the start, the people are not reliable means, because they took a golden statue as a God.

And it was not their only crime in that generation, and per Quran, they didn't support the Prophets and denied some of them and some were left to be killed by government of their time like Yahya.

Now when it comes to deniers of Ahlulbayt (a), for sure to be me they are a false religion. Now leaves the followers, but they are too are condemned similarly the way bani-Israel are and hence can't be seen as a reliable means.

(1) We didn't support our Imams (a) through out time, and hence can't claim to represent them properly.
(2) We mixed falsehood with truth and commanded people to what we didn't do ourselves.
(3) We didn't hold our scholars and their leadership accountable to Quran similarly how Christians followed their scholars without holding them accountable.

This shows, we aren't the true religion, even if Mohammad, Ali.... the Mahdi... (Ahlubayt) are true the same way it shows Judaism and Christianity are not truth even if Musa and Isa are true.

I'm arguing the same reasoning that shows neither Jews or Christians can be relied on for the truth of the divine books the same is true of us with respect to Quran.

Where does that leave Islam and truth?

Hadiths are minefield, some of the treasures that give insights to Quran, and some of them don't.

Scholars offer a lot of insights to hadiths and Quran, but they also make you think in false ways and bring you to error.

The best thing to say, is Quran and it's true interpretation is HIDDEN. The Quran is among the people and it's people among the people but unknown and hidden.

Slowly, if we acknowledge, this, we can begin to remove falsehood in our religion, and build up back truth.

Lastly Quran says you can be informed by revelation or knowledge, and Sunnah often refers to Quran, but often it shows by knowledge, the latter is always found in Quran someway. Despite Quran saying knowledge is a way to know and reasoning works, Ahlulbayt (a) emphasized Quran contains explanation to all things.

Some people underestimate the Quran, and so say "where is this in Quran?", the problem is they take their lack of reflection and understanding as proof something is not in Quran.

Quran contains all guidance and Sunnah of Ahlulbayt (a) has explained it all.

But we have to rethink the approach we taken for attributing things to God and his religion. Ilmel Rijaal doesn't work, Tawatur is not a guarantee something has not been fabricated.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

The Quran endorses Musa, Haroun... Isa.. in Bani-Israel. So how can it say Judaism and Christianity is false?

Surah Baqara shows from the start, the people are not reliable means, because they took a golden statue as a God.

And it was not their only crime in that generation, and per Quran, they didn't support the Prophets and denied some of them and some were left to be killed by government of their time like Yahya.

Now when it comes to deniers of Ahlulbayt (a), for sure to be me they are a false religion. Now leaves the followers, but they are too are condemned similarly the way bani-Israel are and hence can't be seen as a reliable means.

(1) We didn't support our Imams (a) through out time, and hence can't claim to represent them properly.
(2) We mixed falsehood with truth and commanded people to what we didn't do ourselves.
(3) We didn't hold our scholars and their leadership accountable to Quran similarly how Christians followed their scholars without holding them accountable.

This shows, we aren't the true religion, even if Mohammad, Ali.... the Mahdi... (Ahlubayt) are true the same way it shows Judaism and Christianity are not truth even if Musa and Isa are true.

I'm arguing the same reasoning that shows neither Jews or Christians can be relied on for the truth of the divine books the same is true of us with respect to Quran.

Where does that leave Islam and truth?

Hadiths are minefield, some of the treasures that give insights to Quran, and some of them don't.

Scholars offer a lot of insights to hadiths and Quran, but they also make you think in false ways and bring you to error.

The best thing to say, is Quran and it's true interpretation is HIDDEN. The Quran is among the people and it's people among the people but unknown and hidden.

Slowly, if we acknowledge, this, we can begin to remove falsehood in our religion, and build up back truth.

Lastly Quran says you can be informed by revelation or knowledge, and Sunnah often refers to Quran, but often it shows by knowledge, the latter is always found in Quran someway. Despite Quran saying knowledge is a way to know and reasoning works, Ahlulbayt (a) emphasized Quran contains explanation to all things.

Some people underestimate the Quran, and so say "where is this in Quran?", the problem is they take their lack of reflection and understanding as proof something is not in Quran.

Quran contains all guidance and Sunnah of Ahlulbayt (a) has explained it all.

But we have to rethink the approach we taken for attributing things to God and his religion. Ilmel Rijaal doesn't work, Tawatur is not a guarantee something has not been fabricated.

Right, I suppose that's why a Mahdi was promised in Islam, wasn't it?
Because a Mahdi was to establish True Religion again. I suppose According to Islam people won't be able to do it themselves, hence a Mahdi must come and do it.
But even in Hadithes it is said Islam was lonely, and will be still lonely after Mahdi comes. This tells us, always only a minority will be true followers of Islam. And the Quran says, if Allah wanted to bring a Miracle to cause all to bend their neck and believe in Quran, He could have, but that's not what He wants so, they shall continue to differ with regards to believing in Quran. Imam Bagher said exactly same thing about Mahdi. He said when He comes with a new Book, they will continue to differ regarding believing in His Book, just as they did in Quran.

 

[Link]

Right, I suppose that's why a Mahdi was promised in Islam, wasn't it?

The Quran says not to dispute after Mohammad (s) like those before us. We didn't pay heed. The Mahdi (a) is a guarantee and safeguarded, so that we return to God and his guidance.

This is part of it, but the Mahdi (a) could've not went to occultation. There is both light Prophecies (good news) and dark Prophecies (warnings) of Quran, we didn't take heed and so it seems the threats are going to come about.

We can still change course of humanity and make majority accept truth, this is I will give all my life to do, I want majority of humans accepting truth and don't want their destruction either in this world or next.

 

[MyM]

In Islam, Allah has sent many prophets and 5 messengers-with the main messages. In each time, people digressed and left their religion and continued in their wrongdoing. Allah gave warnings-through his prophets/messengers, yet they still continued to do wrong. Allah did punish those people.
Over time, Allah continued to send prophets and messengers with the one true message that to believe in ONE GOD and to worship Him how HE WANTS them to worship HIM. Still mankind went away from the path of God. Each time Allah sent down, people went their own way. Allah sent down his last message encompassing all that went before it. He completed His message with the last of the Messengers as stated in the Quran. He said this is the last one. No other messenger will be coming after Him. It is a warning to mankind yet again.
The Quran is a book endorsed by Allah. The only book ever to do so.
The Quran is a book of guidance. It is explained through Mohammad pbuh and his Sunnah (teachings and sayings)
The Quran is a book of proofs, example, scientific explanations; embryology, astronomy etc.
The Quran is a book with events from the past.
The Quran is a book that tells of Prophets and Messengers and still not all prophets were mentioned in the Quran that we know about-that Allah says.
The Quran is a book of warnings to mankind.
The Quran talks about Heaven and Hellfire.
The Quran talks about obedience to Him and His last messenger.
The Quran is a book that consists of 114 Suras (chapters) example, Maryam, Rome, Father of Maryam, etc.
The Quran is a book in Arabic and has translations in English and many other translations.
The Quran is a book that helps you on the Day of Judgement.
The Quran is an authenticated book with no faults in it.

The Quran is a miracle and a blessing given to us a the final message of God. It would be wise to read it. : )

 

[Link]

There is no verse that there is no more Messengers. There is a verse that there is no more Anbiya.

 

[Link]

The words of Imam Mohamad Al-Baqir (a) about verse 4:83:


Whoever places the Mastership/Wilayat of God and the perceiving ones who God taught in other then the family of God's choice from the households/houses of the Prophets so he has opposed the command of God (mighty and glorious he is) and has made the ignorant of the Walis of God's Command and those pretentious with other then God's guidance and claimed they are the people of perception that God has taught so have lied upon God and have disregarded the advice of God and his obedience and so have not placed the grace of God from when God (the blessed and exalted) has placed it so they went astray and lead astray their followers so on the day of judgement there won't be for them an excuse "And were it not for God's grace upon you and his compassion" by the Message of the Messengers and revelation/bringing down of the book.

وفي الإكمال عن الباقر عليه السلام من وضع ولاية الله وأهل استنباط علم الله في غير أهل الصفوة من بيوتات الأنبياء فقد خالف أمر الله عز وجل وجعل الجهال ولاة أمر الله والمتكلفين بغير هدىً وزعموا أنهم أهل استنباط علم الله فكذبوا على الله وزاغوا عن وصية الله وطاعته فلم يضعوا فضل الله حيث وضعه الله تبارك وتعالى فضلوا وأضلوا اتباعهم فلا تكون لهم يوم القيامة حجة { وَلوْلاَ فَضْلُ اللهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ } بارسال الرسل وانزال الكتاب.

 

[stanberger]

Salam

The Quran endorses Musa, Haroun... Isa.. in Bani-Israel. So how can it say Judaism and Christianity is false?

Surah Baqara shows from the start, the people are not reliable means, because they took a golden statue as a God.

And it was not their only crime in that generation, and per Quran, they didn't support the Prophets and denied some of them and some were left to be killed by government of their time like Yahya.

Now when it comes to deniers of Ahlulbayt (a), for sure to be me they are a false religion. Now leaves the followers, but they are too are condemned similarly the way bani-Israel are and hence can't be seen as a reliable means.

(1) We didn't support our Imams (a) through out time, and hence can't claim to represent them properly.
(2) We mixed falsehood with truth and commanded people to what we didn't do ourselves.
(3) We didn't hold our scholars and their leadership accountable to Quran similarly how Christians followed their scholars without holding them accountable.

This shows, we aren't the true religion, even if Mohammad, Ali.... the Mahdi... (Ahlubayt) are true the same way it shows Judaism and Christianity are not truth even if Musa and Isa are true.

I'm arguing the same reasoning that shows neither Jews or Christians can be relied on for the truth of the divine books the same is true of us with respect to Quran.

Where does that leave Islam and truth?

Hadiths are minefield, some of the treasures that give insights to Quran, and some of them don't.

Scholars offer a lot of insights to hadiths and Quran, but they also make you think in false ways and bring you to error.

The best thing to say, is Quran and it's true interpretation is HIDDEN. The Quran is among the people and it's people among the people but unknown and hidden.

Slowly, if we acknowledge, this, we can begin to remove falsehood in our religion, and build up back truth.

Lastly Quran says you can be informed by revelation or knowledge, and Sunnah often refers to Quran, but often it shows by knowledge, the latter is always found in Quran someway. Despite Quran saying knowledge is a way to know and reasoning works, Ahlulbayt (a) emphasized Quran contains explanation to all things.

Some people underestimate the Quran, and so say "where is this in Quran?", the problem is they take their lack of reflection and understanding as proof something is not in Quran.

Quran contains all guidance and Sunnah of Ahlulbayt (a) has explained it all.

But we have to rethink the approach we taken for attributing things to God and his religion. Ilmel Rijaal doesn't work, Tawatur is not a guarantee something has not been fabricated.

 

[stanberger]

quran unchanged. even pastor bisworth smit concluded after careful study ' the quran is the only scripture preserved in its original language '

 

[Brickjectivity]

The best thing to say, is Quran and it's true interpretation is HIDDEN. The Quran is among the people and it's people among the people but unknown and hidden.

Slowly, if we acknowledge, this, we can begin to remove falsehood in our religion, and build up back truth.

The Quran says not to dispute after Mohammad (s) like those before us. We didn't pay heed. The Mahdi (a) is a guarantee and safeguarded, so that we return to God and his guidance.

This is part of it, but the Mahdi (a) could've not went to occultation. ...

I am curious about your opinion of why Jesus left or why we have been forced to live without him or without a leader. I have opinions but am not going to post them here. I just want to know what you think. I also want to know why this person called Mahdi is hidden. Do you have an opinion about this?

I'm not trying to start an argument or derail your topic, and I can't argue about Quran scriptures.

 

[stanberger]

Salam

The Quran endorses Musa, Haroun... Isa.. in Bani-Israel. So how can it say Judaism and Christianity is false?

Surah Baqara shows from the start, the people are not reliable means, because they took a golden statue as a God.

And it was not their only crime in that generation, and per Quran, they didn't support the Prophets and denied some of them and some were left to be killed by government of their time like Yahya.

Now when it comes to deniers of Ahlulbayt (a), for sure to be me they are a false religion. Now leaves the followers, but they are too are condemned similarly the way bani-Israel are and hence can't be seen as a reliable means.

(1) We didn't support our Imams (a) through out time, and hence can't claim to represent them properly.
(2) We mixed falsehood with truth and commanded people to what we didn't do ourselves.
(3) We didn't hold our scholars and their leadership accountable to Quran similarly how Christians followed their scholars without holding them accountable.

This shows, we aren't the true religion, even if Mohammad, Ali.... the Mahdi... (Ahlubayt) are true the same way it shows Judaism and Christianity are not truth even if Musa and Isa are true.

I'm arguing the same reasoning that shows neither Jews or Christians can be relied on for the truth of the divine books the same is true of us with respect to Quran.

Where does that leave Islam and truth?

Hadiths are minefield, some of the treasures that give insights to Quran, and some of them don't.

Scholars offer a lot of insights to hadiths and Quran, but they also make you think in false ways and bring you to error.

The best thing to say, is Quran and it's true interpretation is HIDDEN. The Quran is among the people and it's people among the people but unknown and hidden.

Slowly, if we acknowledge, this, we can begin to remove falsehood in our religion, and build up back truth.

Lastly Quran says you can be informed by revelation or knowledge, and Sunnah often refers to Quran, but often it shows by knowledge, the latter is always found in Quran someway. Despite Quran saying knowledge is a way to know and reasoning works, Ahlulbayt (a) emphasized Quran contains explanation to all things.

Some people underestimate the Quran, and so say "where is this in Quran?", the problem is they take their lack of reflection and understanding as proof something is not in Quran.

Quran contains all guidance and Sunnah of Ahlulbayt (a) has explained it all.

But we have to rethink the approach we taken for attributing things to God and his religion. Ilmel Rijaal doesn't work, Tawatur is not a guarantee something has not been fabricated.

 

[stanberger]

I left church for islam in 2002. trinity trigod made no sense. even my pastor at the time could not explain it it was voted on at nicea 325ad foreign to Jesus

 

[stanberger]

because Jesus never taught trinity trigodism. Jesus in bible ' greatest command is to worship our lord the one god only ' today only muslims obey Jesus greatest command and in quran moses does not kill all medianites and take 36000 child virgins as a war booty. o t numbers

 

[stanberger]

I am curious about your opinion of why Jesus left or why we have been forced to live without him or without a leader. I have opinions but am not going to post them here. I just want to know what you think. I also want to know why this person called Mahdi is hidden. Do you have an opinion about this?

I'm not trying to start an argument or derail your topic, and I can't argue about Quran scriptures.

Jesus marked for death after attacking rabbis in temple with a whip and calling them liars and children of the devil '[John 8 36 44 god took him up before they could torture and kill him

 

[Brickjectivity]

I left church for islam in 2002. trinity trigod made no sense. even my pastor at the time could not explain it it was voted on at nicea 325ad foreign to Jesus

I think you should have converted out of belief in Muslim things not out of disbelief in Christian things. Anyways your pastor should have taught you not to become a judge of other's thoughts, and he should have allowed you to function in the church as a non trrin. Then he could have retained you as a member, and everyone would have been better for keeping you. That would have been both wise and Christian I think. Now they have lost you, but they could still break bread with you if they would just chill a bit.

I believe that Christians and Muslims ought to break bread together, and Muslims ought to be invited to church. For Christians this would be an act of humility and a confession of sin. Confessing sin is required of Christians, and I think this includes confession to have incorrect thoughts and is about humility before God. There is God above where perfect thoughts are, and then there are people below who have imperfect thoughts.

Muslims are very emphatic about how much they don't like the trinity, but they (like your pastor) don't usually understand it well. Many Christians don't, either. I don't think it should be in a creed, because that leads to misunderstandings. Is in creeds though, so more humility is required to bridge that barrier between people.

 

[RabbiO]

Jesus marked for death after attacking rabbis in temple with a whip and calling them liars and children of the devil '[John 8 36 44 god took him up before they could torture and kill him

In at least 4 posts younhave made the claim that Jesus attacked rabbis with a whip. Since I don’t seem able to find such a verse in Christian scripture that says that, please cite to the exact verse that states explicitly that Jesus attacked rabbis with a whip.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Jesus marked for death after attacking rabbis in temple with a whip and calling them liars and children of the devil '[John 8 36 44 god took him up before they could torture and kill him

So is that also why the Mahdi is said to be hidden? To keep them safe?

 

[Link]

I am curious about your opinion of why Jesus left or why we have been forced to live without him or without a leader. I have opinions but am not going to post them here. I just want to know what you think. I also want to know why this person called Mahdi is hidden. Do you have an opinion about this?

I'm not trying to start an argument or derail your topic, and I can't argue about Quran scriptures.

Salam

In Quran, children of Israel said to Musa (A) "Go you fight, you and your Lord..." because they knew he had incredible powers unlike them.

The Mahdi (a) and Isa (a) both can take on the whole world if God permits. God hid Jesus (a) because he is a promised king set to rule the world from line of Dawood (A). God hid the Mahdi (a) because he is a king set to rule from the line of Fatima (s).

The Quran shows if Miracles are not denied by the first generations, then they would not become hidden. The fact that miracles are not in the open now means, these miracles were denied.

Both of these holy souls, can take on everyone, and become by God's permission immune to death. But this would probably result in destruction of people so because opposed the signs in form of miracles, God hide the Mahdi (a) and also same reason hid Isa (a).

God doesn't want most cities destroyed and so has delayed the appearance of the Mahdi (a) and descent of Isa (a) so we can prepare for them.

 

[stanberger]

I think you should have converted out of belief in Muslim things not out of disbelief in Christian things. Anyways your pastor should have taught you not to become a judge of other's thoughts, and he should have allowed you to function in the church as a non trrin. Then he could have retained you as a member, and everyone would have been better for keeping you. That would have been both wise and Christian I think. Now they have lost you, but they could still break bread with you if they would just chill a bit.

I believe that Christians and Muslims ought to break bread together, and Muslims ought to be invited to church. For Christians this would be an act of humility and a confession of sin. Confessing sin is required of Christians, and I think this includes confession to have incorrect thoughts and is about humility before God. There is God above where perfect thoughts are, and then there are people below who have imperfect thoughts.

Muslims are very emphatic about how much they don't like the trinity, but they (like your pastor) don't usually understand it well. Many Christians don't, either. I don't think it should be in a creed, because that leads to misunderstandings. Is in creeds though, so more humility is required to bridge that barrier between people.

leaving the church was the best thing I ever did. but it was a combination of belief in islam [monotheism] and disbelief the trinity trigod voted on at nicea 325ad [foreign to Jesus] our jewish friends/rabbis also consider trinity man made

 

[KWED]

leaving the church was the best thing I ever did. but it was a combination of belief in islam [monotheism] and disbelief the trinity trigod voted on at nicea 325ad [foreign to Jesus] our jewish friends/rabbis also consider trinity man made

Yeah, Christianity doesn't make much sense - but what was it about the Quran that convinced you that it is the actual, infallible, immutable, revealed word of an actual god? Be as specific as you can please.

 

[KWED]

Jesus marked for death after attacking rabbis in temple with a whip and calling them liars and children of the devil '[John 8 36 44 god took him up before they could torture and kill him

So you stopped believing in Christianity because it made no sense - but this seems perfectly reasonable?