Islam in the Tanakh and the Bible

[Green Gaia]

yes exactly, why don't people just understand.

Just because something makes a certain claim doesn't make it true. Islam is not the first or oldest religion. To assert that is true is just making yourself look silly.

 

[Fatihah]

Timeline of Religions

I don't see how Christianity or Judaism could have taken anything from Islam. The other way around seems more obvious to me

What about Hinduism, Taoism, Shinto, Buddhism and other religions that were obviously practiced long before Islam was founded and Muhammad (pbuh) lived?

Response: Well the similarities between those religions and islam are not many. That's the reason why I only said the tanakh and the bible. However if there are, please share.

 

[Fatihah]

Are you contesting that Zoroastianism isn't older than Islam? I ask because, if you are, then it would be a good indicator of what type of discussion this is likely to be.

Response: Yes I am. I as a muslim believe that islam was the first religion.

 

[Green Gaia]

Response: Well the similarities between those religions and islam are not many. That's the reason why I only said the tanakh and the bible. However if there are, please share.

Similarities are not the issue. The foundation, timeline and history of each religion is.

 

[Fatihah]

One gets used to this peculiar nature of discussions with Muslims fairly quickly. In the Muslim view of reality, Islam has always existed and every so-called prophet spoke about Islam, even though, of course we never heard the term "Islam" until Muhammad emerged onto the scene.

Response: I don't know who this "We" is but to say that "we" never heard of the term islam until Muhammad emerged on the scene implies that before Muhammad emerged, you never heard the term. Muhammad lived centuries before you were born so how could you when you weren't even born yet?

 

[Quagmire]

well the word "islam" means "submission" or "surrender" ie. surrender to the will of Allah or lets just say god.

I think you could have stopped there and this would have been the perfect answer, since all three religions in their purest form teach this.

Of course, nobody ever stops there....

 

[Fatihah]

Similarities are not the issue. The foundation, timeline and history of each religion is.

Response: Then why ask the question?

 

[Fatihah]

The claim I boldened in your comment.

Response: And you say this is a claim "after the fact". What fact is that?

 

[gnostic]

According to the teachings of islam, the religion (islam) did not begin with Muhammad but with Adam who is the first man and prophet and the religion's traditions and customs stem from the practices and religion of Abraham.

I think that's pure conjecture, on the Muslims' part...and I think boastful claims with no evidences to support it.

As far, in reality, Islam was invented by Muhammad; it's a new religion...back then. Islam may have been based on Judaism or Christianity, but the fact that Muhammad's claim of prophethood is not even an Israelite, showed that the Islam is a new religion with only tenacious ties to the old religions.

When I said "boastful", is more in line with Muslim propaganda. You've started the thread on "Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam" in regards to propaganda that non-Muslims use to repudiate Muslim claim or the teaching of Islam, but you and other Muslims have made many claims that could be seen as propaganda, like that Islam existing before Muhammad, or that of Muhammad is the last prophet, the Qur'an having scientific merits, etc.

These claims invite non-Muslims, both of religious and non-religious backgrounds to examine your claims, or criticise, test or debate such claims. If they don't have the evidences to support their claims, then Islam, as well as the Muslims, have deservedly invited criticism or ridicules.

But the same can be holds true with all other religions as well. If they make similar claims, then it is their faults that they make unsubstantiated boasts.

I have criticised Christian views and claims in the past too, such as the creation from the Genesis, miracles from various prophets and resurrection of Jesus, and promise of afterlife. The Christians deserved criticism when they make claims that the bible was written by god, just as Muslims deserved the criticism when they claimed Allah wrote the Qur'an. You and others like you, not just Muslims, have made boastful claims in the past and present.

So beware, expect criticism and questioning. And if your can't prove you what you've claimed, then expect rebuffs and ridicules.

 

[kai]

Response: Then if this is the case, that would mean that Muhammad was copying old jewish stories. Well, who specifically did he copy from and why is it that people did not realize the plagarism as you have realized it?

well it was the 7th century Judaism and Christianity were very well established, and i would not use the word Plagarism ,more like assimilation.Its much easier to convert people with a religion they already have a grasp of ,than something completely alien.Then when anyone does start to make enquiries, you can say the older scripture is corrupted.

 

[Zardoz]

Response: Yes I am. I as a muslim believe that islam was the first religion.

I as a Jew believe that Noachideism was the first religion. Yes, Adam was given laws but G-d's covenant with Noah reaffirmed those commandments and completed the Seven Laws and sealed them in a covenant, a contract with Man. Since Abraham championed the Noachide laws and Ishmael and Issac were his sons, I can agree that Islam as well as Judaism share this legacy of the first religion, Noachideism.

So, what does Islam have to say about G-d's covenant with Noah? Don't know, asking.

 

[ProudMuslim]

As far, in reality, Islam was invented by Muhammad; it's a new religion...back then. Islam may have been based on Judaism or Christianity, but the fact that Muhammad's claim of prophethood is not even an Israelite, showed that the Islam is a new religion with only tenacious ties to the old religions

Did you do your homework before making this ridiculous statement? Neither Abraham, nor Ishmael nor Issac were Israelite and YET they were prophets of God. Abraham (PBUH) is considered to to be the father of prophets, and Muhammed (PBUH) trace back to him via his son Ishmael.

I have criticised Christian views and claims in the past too, such as the creation from the Genesis, miracles from various prophets and resurrection of Jesus, and promise of afterlife. The Christians deserved criticism when they make claims that the bible was written by god, just as Muslims deserved the criticism when they claimed Allah wrote the Qur'an. You and others like you, not just Muslims, have made boastful claims in the past and present.

"claimed"? Why is it past sentence. Muslims believe that Qur'an is God's words and nothing so far has been presented even by the most hardcore atheists (who many of them think they are smart by rejecting everything) to refute this fact. Nothing. I only hear ridiculous excuses by many atheists in 'Qur'an and Scientific facts' such as Muhammed (PBUH) suing Nimrud lens to magnify something as small as 0.02mm!! (talking about inviting criticisms). But nothing valid has been presented so far.

I think you could have stopped there and this would have been the perfect answer, since all three religions in their purest form teach this.

Of course, nobody ever stops there...

I totally agree with you on this point.

In fact i am not sure how the topic unfold to discuss which is the oldest(er) religion!

Islam with Muhammed (PBUH) sharia law is not the oldest religion. Islam as in "submission to God" is not only the oldest but also the message ALL God messengers and prophets (not limited to Abrahamic religions messengers) came with to propagate.

So to say prophet Muhammed (PBUH) invented the "submission to God" message is absurd. All previous ones did the same thing, some got altered, some got lost, some got mixed with mythologies and customs and so forth. But modern Islam is not the only religion that calls to worship One God and submit your will to Him.

 

[Green Gaia]

Response: Then why ask the question?

Because they are major world religions that existed before Islam was founded.

 

[Gharib]

I think you could have stopped there and this would have been the perfect answer, since all three religions in their purest form teach this.

Of course, nobody ever stops there....

i know, no one ever has, so i'm not the one whos going to change that.

well look i was just playing along, what else was there for me to do? he asked so i delivered. so here we are, you are saying that islam truly is the oldest religion. thank you. that is what you are saying right?

 

[Fatihah]

I think that's pure conjecture, on the Muslims' part...and I think boastful claims with no evidences to support it.

As far, in reality, Islam was invented by Muhammad; it's a new religion...back then. Islam may have been based on Judaism or Christianity, but the fact that Muhammad's claim of prophethood is not even an Israelite, showed that the Islam is a new religion with only tenacious ties to the old religions.

When I said "boastful", is more in line with Muslim propaganda. You've started the thread on "Propaganda: Why it is necessary for Islam" in regards to propaganda that non-Muslims use to repudiate Muslim claim or the teaching of Islam, but you and other Muslims have made many claims that could be seen as propaganda, like that Islam existing before Muhammad, or that of Muhammad is the last prophet, the Qur'an having scientific merits, etc.

Response: It's not propaganda if it's true. The propaganda said on islam can't even be found in the scriptures. But if one were to study the tanakh, the bible, and the qur'an together, one could clearly see the similarities. So to ask if islam is taught in the tanakh or bible is a reasonable question. Especially since the word "judaism" or "christianity" is not in either scriptures. Also, if you are claiming that Muhammad invented islam, it's a two-way street. So be prepared to provide evidence as well.

Quote: gnostic
These claims invite non-Muslims, both of religious and non-religious backgrounds to examine your claims, or criticise, test or debate such claims. If they don't have the evidences to support their claims, then Islam, as well as the Muslims, have deservedly invited criticism or ridicules.

But the same can be holds true with all other religions as well. If they make similar claims, then it is their faults that they make unsubstantiated boasts.

I have criticised Christian views and claims in the past too, such as the creation from the Genesis, miracles from various prophets and resurrection of Jesus, and promise of afterlife. The Christians deserved criticism when they make claims that the bible was written by god, just as Muslims deserved the criticism when they claimed Allah wrote the Qur'an. You and others like you, not just Muslims, have made boastful claims in the past and present.

So beware, expect criticism and questioning. And if your can't prove you what you've claimed, then expect rebuffs and ridicules.

Response: Trust and believe, if there is any group of people who are prepared for criticism, it's the muslims. Just look at all of your attacks on Muhammad in this forum alone. No prophet is more slandered than Muhammad so many muslims are used to criticism.

 

[themadhair]

It's not propaganda if it's true.

Until you demonstrate the truthfulness of your claims then it IS propaganda.

Trust and believe, if there is any group of people who are prepared for criticism, it's the muslims.
…
No prophet is more slandered than Muhammad so many muslims are used to criticism.

I don’t like the sound of that…

 

[Fatihah]

I as a Jew believe that Noachideism was the first religion. Yes, Adam was given laws but G-d's covenant with Noah reaffirmed those commandments and completed the Seven Laws and sealed them in a covenant, a contract with Man. Since Abraham championed the Noachide laws and Ishmael and Issac were his sons, I can agree that Islam as well as Judaism share this legacy of the first religion, Noachideism.

So, what does Islam have to say about G-d's covenant with Noah? Don't know, asking.

Response: Noachideism? I must humbly say that I have no knowledge of this. So what exactly is Noachideism? As for the covenant with Noah, in islam, Allah has made a covenant with Abraham though Noah was also granted prophethood as well.

 

[Fatihah]

Because they are major world religions that existed before Islam was founded.

Response: And when was islam founded and by whom?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Response: Then if this is the case, that would mean that Muhammad was copying old jewish stories.

Why is that an unreasonable supposition?

Well, who specifically did he copy from and why is it that people did not realize the plagarism as you have realized it?

I was under the impression that people always realized that the Quran re-told stories that appeared in Jewish scriptures.

 

[Green Gaia]

Response: And when was islam founded and by whom?

Islam was founded in 7th century A.D. by Muhammad.