Islam and the Bible

[Booko]

It's a common idea in Islam that the text of the Bible is not always reliable.

This is an inadequate bit of info from Wiki, but is at least a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible

What is the basis for an Islamic view that the Bible text is unreliable.

Is this a fair view or are there other possibilities?

I hope our fellow Muslims will pop in and give us their pov on this subject, and that those with knowledge of the history of these texts and how they became put together into the Bible will add their views to the mix.

 

[Djamila]

There is absolutely no evidence the Bible is corrupted that is strong enough to sway even the least devoted Christians. If you have any measure of faith in the Bible, that's the way you'll remain no matter how much you investigate.

According to Islam, people of the book - meaning Christians and Jews - also go to heaven provided they are good Christians, and good Jews, according to the practices dictated not by Islam, but by their own faiths. So I have no concern for my Christian and Jewish loved ones in a spiritual sense.

Obviously, I'm not Christian, so obviously, I personally do not "believe" in the Bible. For me it's just a matter of belief, personal perference, my own values, all of that - all very personal. The only complaint I have about the Bible is all the various translations. The Bible is so different in Greek compared to English that I just feel... perhaps all Christians should use the original Greek and Hebrew texts, and learn their meaning in the language they were written in.

At the same time, I cannot read a word of Arabic. My Koran is in Bosnian. So I have the same situation.

That's all I really can say about this subject, I really don't know if I answered your question from my perspective or not.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

It's a common idea in Islam that the text of the Bible is not always reliable.

This is an inadequate bit of info from Wiki, but is at least a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible

What is the basis for an Islamic view that the Bible text is unreliable.

Is this a fair view or are there other possibilities?

I hope our fellow Muslims will pop in and give us their pov on this subject, and that those with knowledge of the history of these texts and how they became put together into the Bible will add their views to the mix.

Allah says it in the Quran, and many Christian scholars have also proven it is unreliable. Plus if the bible was perfect then there would have been no reason to send the Quran. The bible would have been sufficient, besides the Message of Jesus was unfulfilled. As he said in John to his disciples" I have many things to say howbeit you cannot bear it. How beit when He the spirit of truth comes he will guide you to all truth." We believe that this is Muhammed he is speaking about. A continuation, preserverd, protected, and completed text teaching what all the Prophets and those who follow the true Abrahamic faith. Where the followers only worship god without partner.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

There is absolutely no evidence the Bible is corrupted that is strong enough to sway even the least devoted Christians. If you have any measure of faith in the Bible, that's the way you'll remain no matter how much you investigate.

then explain how many Christians are coming into Islam. It is the fastest growing religion.

According to Islam, people of the book - meaning Christians and Jews - also go to heaven provided they are good Christians, and good Jews, according to the practices dictated not by Islam, but by their own faiths. So I have no concern for my Christian and Jewish loved ones in a spiritual sense.

No the Christian and Jews are the ones in the past who believed in Allah, and his prophets. So the ones who stayed on the true path of tawhid. Those that do not are going to be punished, because what would be the point of sending a messenger if what the people are doing is correct.

Obviously, I'm not Christian, so obviously, I personally do not "believe" in the Bible. For me it's just a matter of belief, personal perference, my own values, all of that - all very personal. The only complaint I have about the Bible is all the various translations. The Bible is so different in Greek compared to English that I just feel... perhaps all Christians should use the original Greek and Hebrew texts, and learn their meaning in the language they were written in.

It is still a work in progress what do you expect.

At the same time, I cannot read a word of Arabic. My Koran is in Bosnian. So I have the same situation.

That's all I really can say about this subject, I really don't know if I answered your question from my perspective or not.

At least as a muslim you have access to the original text. Whereas the other faiths do not. It is a copy of a copy, that was edited with additions and deletions to the point. not only that the layman is not allowed access to the present documents.

 

[Djamila]

You chose the username mujahid, and then expect to have your opinions of Christianity taken seriously? If a Roman Catholic man joined RF with the nickname "Crusader Jesus", would you even bother reading his posts in the Islam subforum?

I don't want to fight with you, and I'm not going to. For you and I to discuss this issue, we'll just end up running around in circles and annoying each other. We've both made our views clear, and that's enough.

 

[Peace4all]

It's a common idea in Islam that the text of the Bible is not always reliable.

This is an inadequate bit of info from Wiki, but is at least a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible

What is the basis for an Islamic view that the Bible text is unreliable.

Is this a fair view or are there other possibilities?

I hope our fellow Muslims will pop in and give us their pov on this subject, and that those with knowledge of the history of these texts and how they became put together into the Bible will add their views to the mix.

It may be true that some of the bible is intact however so much of the Bible has changed that Allah decided to reaveal the last and the final book... The Quran.

Anyone who was christian and followed the Bible's practices BEFORE Islam goes to heaven, with proper judgement of course, but the expiration date of the bible has passed.

 

[TashaN]

It's a common idea in Islam that the text of the Bible is not always reliable.

This is an inadequate bit of info from Wiki, but is at least a starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible

What is the basis for an Islamic view that the Bible text is unreliable.

Is this a fair view or are there other possibilities?

I hope our fellow Muslims will pop in and give us their pov on this subject, and that those with knowledge of the history of these texts and how they became put together into the Bible will add their views to the mix.

The link which you provided wasn't enough to know why?

 

[TashaN]

There is absolutely no evidence the Bible is corrupted that is strong enough to sway even the least devoted Christians. If you have any measure of faith in the Bible, that's the way you'll remain no matter how much you investigate.

There is tons of them. Anyway, this is your opnion and we respect it.

According to Islam, people of the book - meaning Christians and Jews - also go to heaven provided they are good Christians, and good Jews, according to the practices dictated not by Islam, but by their own faiths. So I have no concern for my Christian and Jewish loved ones in a spiritual sense.

This time you said "According to Islam" and this is a huge responsibility because as far as i know most of people in here "including me" just represent ourselves because we don't have the ultimate knowledge about our religion which allow us to speak in behave of millions or billions of people.

When someone say "according to Islam" must be aware of every word he/she mention providing some evidences to back up his/her claims.

Believe me, it's nothing personal. We don't know each other yet but this is how things go on.

I hope you will provide any evidence from Quran or an authentic hadith to show us why you believe in what you mentioned in your post. Otherwise, you can just say "in my opnion", "i think" or "i believe", etc.

You chose the username mujahid, and then expect to have your opinions of Christianity taken seriously?

There is nothing wrong with the name Mujahid and if i were him, i would be so proud to hold such a name. My brother Mujahid is representing "God willing" a good exmple for a real mujahid who knows well what really Jihad is.

 

[Djamila]

Our relationship is going to be an interesting one, The Truth. I've read enough of your posts to really respect your views, so I won't be able to just dismiss you as a conservative, and hopefully you won't be able to do the same to me as a liberal.

I'll start adopting the phrase, "In my opinion, Islam dictates..." - seems a wise decision to make. As for what I said, it's what I learned in school. I know we read the passages at the time - but it will take me some time to find them again. I will, though, before the end of the day!

 

[TashaN]

Our relationship is going to be an interesting one, The Truth. I've read enough of your posts to really respect your views, so I won't be able to just dismiss you as a conservative, and hopefully you won't be able to do the same to me as a liberal.

The one who respect people will definitely earn respect.

I'll start adopting the phrase, "In my opinion, Islam dictates..." - seems a wise decision to make.

Definitely. :yes:

As for what I said, it's what I learned in school. I know we read the passages at the time - but it will take me some time to find them again. I will, though, before the end of the day!

[62] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62).

I believe, you mean this verse, isn't it?

We all learn stuff in schools but does that mean, that we have to ignore any other opnion just because we didn't agree? of course not.

Since i came here i learnt alot about Muslims around the world and their thoughts about Islam. Also, RF gave me a big oprtunity to know more about other religions as well.

Here, especially about religion issues. If there is no evidence for what someone claim, so it's nothing more than a personal opnion.

Peace and blessing,

The Truth ..

 

[Djamila]

Yes, that's exactly it. But there were more passages as well, two or three similar ones. But I remember the passage "On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve" because I thought, and think, it's such a beautiful thing.

 

[TashaN]

Nice. Now to come to the understanding of what does (Surah 2: verse 62) mean, we have to go back to it's story in Tafseer because as you know the Quran was revealed through 23 years according to events in the life of prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" most of the time. Therefore, when we go back and see what happened before this verse was revealed we will know for sure what does it mean.

There was one of the Sahabat of prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" who entered to Islam after being advised by a priest at that time to follow the arabian prophet who will appear in Maddina city and he told him how to find the sign of the prophethood in Mohammed because he is the last prophet of Allah. Then after he became a muslim and live as a muslim, he remembred his friends in the past and how obdience they were in worshipping God and they were waiting for prophet Mohammed to appear to follow him because the people of the book find that in their scriptures. His name was "Salman Al-Farsi" and he asked the prophet about his friends who died before meeting prophet Mohammed but the answer was definitely that they are in hell because prophet Mohammed only follow what Allah taught him.

[3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

[4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: (Surah 53:3-4)

After that Salman Al-Farsi felt sad about that then Allah revealed this verse:

[62] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62).

After that another vers was revealed to show the difference and to sustain the first one.

[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission (islam) as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers. (Surah 3:85)

Also read in these coming verses about it.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1. Those who disbelieve, among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-

2. Messenger from Allah, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy:

3. Wherein are books right and straight.

4. Nor did the People of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence.

5. And they have been commanded no more than this: to worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to give Zakat; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.

6. Those who disbelieve, among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

7. Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.

8. Their reward is with Allah. Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and they with Him: all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher. (Surah 98).

Qur'an 2:111-112 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Heifer)

And they say: "None shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
Nay whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.

And ...

Qur'an 3:199 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)

And there are certainly among the people of the Book those who believe in Allah in the revelation to you and in the revelation to them bowing in humility to Allah: they will not sell the signs of Allah for a miserable gain! for them is a reward with their Lord and Allah is swift in account.

Therefore, if they believed in the revelation to their prophet AND the revelation to prophet Mohammed and bow in humility to Allah so their reward with Allah but if they don't believe in prophet Mohammed so they wouldn't considered as muslims and they are considered as unbelievers.

Peace and blessing,

The Truth ..

 

[Booko]

Obviously, I'm not Christian, so obviously, I personally do not "believe" in the Bible. For me it's just a matter of belief, personal perference, my own values, all of that - all very personal.

How so? I'm a Baha'i and I "believe" in the Bible. It's part of the foundation of my religion, like the Qu'ran is. It may be that you don't read it much, because you have the Qu'ran that supercedes it, but that's another story.

That's all I really can say about this subject, I really don't know if I answered your question from my perspective or not.

Your answer is whatever it is!

Thanks

 

[Booko]

Allah says it in the Quran, and many Christian scholars have also proven it is unreliable.

Would you mind directing to the place where it says that? I know it's a common enough belief with Muslims, but I'd like to see what it says in the Qu'ran if possible.

Plus if the bible was perfect then there would have been no reason to send the Quran.

Uh...except for the parts that foretell Muhammad (pbuh). You see, this is one of the problems I have with the idea that the Qu'ran would not be needed. If the Bible said we should expect Muhammad, then who are we to question God about what He has in mind?

The bible would have been sufficient, besides the Message of Jesus was unfulfilled. As he said in John to his disciples" I have many things to say howbeit you cannot bear it. How beit when He the spirit of truth comes he will guide you to all truth." We believe that this is Muhammed he is speaking about.

I had other passages in mind, but I'm not sure that makes much difference.

A continuation, preserverd, protected, and completed text teaching what all the Prophets and those who follow the true Abrahamic faith. Where the followers only worship god without partner.

Well, I'm with you on the part about not joining partners with God. The thing is, I don't equate long-standing Christian interpretations of the Bible with what Jesus actually meant. That is, Jesus may have said something, but it was just misunderstood. It doesn't require thinking the essential text of the Gospels were tinkered with.

 

[Booko]

then explain how many Christians are coming into Islam. It is the fastest growing religion.

That depends on how you look at your statistics. Do you mean by sheer numbers? Percentages? Is it because of converts or a higher birth rate? Are you aware of the difficulties of enumerating adherents in any religion? They are really quite...monumental.

No the Christian and Jews are the ones in the past who believed in Allah, and his prophets. So the ones who stayed on the true path of tawhid. Those that do not are going to be punished, because what would be the point of sending a messenger if what the people are doing is correct.

For the last part, about why send a Messenger if everything is correct, yes I agree. However, for the first part, if Christians and Jews have strayed so far off the path that they will be punished, one wonders why the Qu'ran says they will have nothing to fear or regret?

At least as a muslim you have access to the original text. Whereas the other faiths do not. It is a copy of a copy, that was edited with additions and deletions to the point. not only that the layman is not allowed access to the present documents.

As far as Biblical religions go, this is so. It isn't true of all religions, though. The originals of my religion are there. Not just the text, but the handwritten originals.

However, I'd be taking my own thread off track to pursue this any further, so I guess I'd better desist! :cover:

 

[Booko]

It may be true that some of the bible is intact however so much of the Bible has changed that Allah decided to reaveal the last and the final book... The Quran.

Which parts of the Bible have changed? Hm, maybe let's narrow this down a bit, considering Muslims don't take the Epistles into account anyway.

Which parts of the Gospels do you think have changed?

Who do you think changed them, and why?

Anyone who was christian and followed the Bible's practices BEFORE Islam goes to heaven, with proper judgement of course, but the expiration date of the bible has passed.

I have no difficulty with the notion that the Qu'ran supercedes the Bible, or that it would be better to follow the most recent Messenger, but you seem to be implying that since the revelation of Islam, Christians will not be going to heaven.

If that is the case, then will you please explain this ayat to me?

69. Those who believe (in the Qur'án), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 5)

 

[TashaN]

If that is the case, then will you please explain this ayat to me?

69. Those who believe (in the Qur'án), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 5)

Post # 12.

 

[Booko]

The link which you provided wasn't enough to know why?

I wished to know several things:

If that's so common an idea among Muslims (apparently it's not universal)

What some of the ideas are, and why people hold them.

And to look at the ideas where there are Muslims and Christians both present.

You can't do that on a Wiki article.

For that matter, it is unwise to trust the content of a Wiki article unless you know something about the subject to judge whether it's accurate or not.

So I thought I'd ask.

 

[Booko]

You said to Djamila:

This time you said "According to Islam" and this is a huge responsibility because as far as i know most of people in here "including me" just represent ourselves because we don't have the ultimate knowledge about our religion which allow us to speak in behave of millions or billions of people.

When someone say "according to Islam" must be aware of every word he/she mention providing some evidences to back up his/her claims.

fwiw, I just did. And what she said is a darn near quotation from the Qu'ran. What better thing is there to define "What is Islam?"

Maybe you have another understanding of this ayat I posted, but I'm sure you will say if you do.

There is nothing wrong with the name Mujahid and if i were him, i would be so proud to hold such a name. My brother Mujahid is representing "God willing" a good exmple for a real mujahid who knows well what really Jihad is.

I thought it was an interesting choice of username also. One wonders how many people I put off by having a title of "deviled hen."

But I figured it would be better to just read what he has to say and see how it is. And besides, I am not confused by Western stupid definitions of Jihad that make it out to be physical violence.

I think most of my fellow Americans would be shocked to discover that it would be making Jihad to get good grades in school.

 

[Hacker]

[62] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62).

This sounds to me that Christians and Jewish people will go to heaven, or is it that Christians and Jewish must BELIEVE in Allah in order to "recieve their awards?" I'm sorry, but i'm a little confused.. could you explain.