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Islam and Terrorism

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Islam, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. Islam

    Islam Member

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    What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?
    Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:

    God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

    The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}3

    Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.4

    He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,5 and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.6}7

    Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.}8

    He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}9

    Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.}
     
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  2. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    Glad to hear it, what i would really like to see in my country in particular are people marching with slogan "not in my name" just as they did about the invasion of Iraq it would help those who think that All Muslims are terrorist sympathizers dont you think


    in fact not in Allahs name would be a better slogan
     
  3. maro

    maro muslimah

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    Actually I couldn't get what u have said very well
    but if u call someone who defends his land against invaders a terrorist
    u can consider me a terrorist sympathizer, too
     
  4. kai

    kai ragamuffin

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    where is your land and who has invaded it, lets talk about it
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What does Islam say about the anti-personnel weapons deployed against Israeli population centers by Hezbolluh & Hamas?
     
  6. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

    War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

    Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

    Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

    If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

    Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33

    Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

    Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45

    Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

    Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137

    When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16

    Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17

    Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60

    If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39

    The list goes on...
     
  7. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QURAN/8/index.htm#59

    Are you kidding me? :eek:

    What a bad translation from an old anti-religion grabage website.

    Use a translation which Muslims can accept but not some anti-islam websites.

    Use this one. This page has the English translation of the meanings of The Qur'an by Saheeh International (Al-Muntada Al-Islami) , which is one of the best English translations so far:

    http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=120
     
  8. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Dair enough. Let's look at your translation:

    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al-îar&#257;m until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 2:191

    Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And All&#257;h Knows, while you know not.


    <FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: Gulim">They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of All&#257;h. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper. 4:89
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Islam, seen by Christians, can only be judged by the behaviour of those who claim to be followers of Islam.

    I am in no way saying that the West has been blameless, but I believe, from attitudes I see and hear, that the Muslims portray Islam as a religion of revenge.

    Now, if that is wrong, Muslims throughout the World should behave in such a way as to re-educate us. When a woman (a mother of a young man wo has just murdered several people using the tactic of blowing himself up) points to her younger child, and says "I hope he will grow up to be as brave as his brother".........I think the West's understanding of the Islamic attitude is understandable.
     
  10. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Uhh, i looked up your last quote first so I'll respond to that first =)
    Way to misquote! This makes it seem like they are to kill everyone who does not convert.. oh wait, here is 4:90 (the passage right after the one you quoted... This passage says to only "kill" those who do not fight you and do not offer you peace... Your bias is showing...


    Now to your first quote...
    Wow, again you only quote one phrase when the phrase before and after make it clear you are to only kill those who fight you.
    I am not sure where your middle quote is from...

    From what I see you posted these quotes with the express purpose of making people think Muslims are commanded to kill those who do not believe as they do which is not true...
     
  11. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    I think most Muslims believe in the religion of peace... Peace doesn't sell news like war does...

    Someone who grows up in a house in favor of the extremist views of Islam is more likely to hold these beliefs than someone who isn't. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the parents of the suicide bombers are proud.
     
  12. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

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    I got a warning from one of the moderators on this forum for equating Islamic fundamentalism with Fascism on a different topic elsewhere. It's very difficult to express non-inflammatory opinions about Islam at all, since Muslims tend to be over defensive and often vitriolic in instances where an issue is cut-and-dried, black-and-white, like the one discussed in the posts above.

    We have a growing Muslim here in my country and I have no problem with them. In real-life, in practice, most Muslims don't go around looking for unbelievers to kill, as the Quran orders them to, simply because they are not strong, willing or able enough to do so. They would be destroyed and killed themselves first, by us in the West. If violence is what Muslims want, they'll get it and themsome from the Western World, no questions asked. We are very good at violence.

    God's alleged sanction for holy wars, crusades, jihads or whatever is understandable in the context of the ignorance, hatred and delusion that Abrahamic religion is rooted in. But in real-life, the grip of this viral insanity is waning (thank God).

    Progressive, liberal Islamic movements might ensure a peaceful future for Muslims in the West, but intransigent fundamentalists will suffer the same fate they wish upon their enemies: death.

    Anything less would be a betrayal of the Quran's message, after all...
     
  13. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Hehe wow... just wow
     
  14. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    It is not a misquote.. your assertion is that it is a quote out of context. And please refrain from making personal remarks.

    87. All&#257;h – there is no deity except Him. He will surely assemble you for [account on] the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. And who is more truthful than All&#257;h in statement.

    88. What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while All&#257;h has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom All&#257;h has sent astray? And he whom All&#257;h sends astray – never will you find for him a way [of guidance].

    89. They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of All&#257;h. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

    90. Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if All&#257;h had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then All&#257;h has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

    Enough context?
     
  15. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy Well-Known Member

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    Ryan,

    You and I often see eye to eye, but not on this issue my friend. The quotes that JerryL had from the Q'uran are there, as are similar quotes from other Abrahamic Holy Books, but much more important than the quotes themselves are the significant number of people whose actions speak much louder and clearer than any written text. From the Muslim Brotherhood days early in the last century to today, the stated goal of the Islamists, Islamofascists, Radical Muslims or whatever term is most convenient is to bring the entire world under Sha'ria, by whatever means necessary.

    This, in practice, leads to a platform of converting or killing, and in the case of Shi'a vs. Sunni it means killing, period, as they are already Muslims. One has to bury his head quite deep not to notice and be alert to such things as suicide bombers, those who advocate the killing of up to 10 MILLION AMERICANS (as was recently supported by an Egyptian Cleric at the bequest of Bin Laden) and the advocation of wiping Israel off the map (President of Iran's statements) etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    Wanting to be fair and PC is all well and good, but not when it ignores the reality of our enemy. IMHO.

    B.
     
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  16. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

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    Fudge: I hate retyping.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071401030.html

    Confidence in Osama bin Laden has declined markedly in some countries, and fewer believe suicide bombings that target civilians are justified in the defense of Islam," the poll concluded.

    The one exception is attitudes toward suicide bombings of U.S and Western targets in Iraq, a subject on which Muslims were divided. Roughly half of Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan and Morocco said such attacks are justifiable, while sizable majorities in Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia disagreed. Yet, support for suicide bombings in Iraq still declined by as much as 20 percent compared with a poll taken last year.

    [...]

    The proportion that expressed confidence in the al Qaeda leader dropped from almost half to about a quarter in Morocco, and from 58 percent to 37 percent in Indonesia. Bin Laden's standing went up slightly in Pakistan, to 51 percent, and in Jordan, to 60 percent.

    [...]

    Jordan was the only country where the majority surveyed -- 57 percent -- still support terrorist acts in defense of Islam, possibly because the majority Palestinian population is tied to the conflict with Israel, Kohut said.
    Now I'll be the first to admit that this does not establish that a majority of Muslims support violence, though I also must point out that this shows only the numbers supporting suicide bombings, and in several muslim countries that's the majority. In several others, it is not the majority... though those that support violence is neccessarily the size of those that support suicide bombing.

    Though my point is that support is far from "a tiny fringe group", when there's nearly 50% support in nearly-billion-strong Indonesia.
     
  17. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Are you asserting this quote promotes terrorism or it does not allow it?

    The problem I see with this, however, is that the "Radical Muslims" actions always speak louder than the average Muslim's actions. This is the case with any religion though. It seems it is harder to see the true religion other than the radical version of the religion...

    I do agree that depending on what translation you use, Islam can support terrorism or can go against terrorism. Here I am only argueing that in this context the Quran does not support terrorism.

    America hears so much about the radical Muslims some don't realize there are Muslims that actually do not support the terrorists. While the quotes that promote terrorism are in the Quran some versions of the Quran only promote terrorism when you take the quote completely out of contex.

    While 4:89 alone tells Muslims to kill those that do not believe as they do, quote 4:89 and 4:90 show that they are to kill those who fight them and don't offer them peace. So the Muslims that use that version of the Quran are more than likely not going to be terrorists =)
     
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  18. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    http://islamicweb.com/begin/population.htm
    # Muslims in Lebanon: 2,643, 422
    # Muslims that support the suicide bombings: 1,321,711

    # Muslims in Jordan: 4,001,544
    # Muslims supporting suicide bombings: 2,000,772

    # Muslims in Morocco: 29,392,027
    #Muslims supporting suicide bombings: 14,696,013.5

    Total supporting suicide bombings: 18,018,496.5
    Total not supporting suicide bombings: 18,019,496.5

    Lets say a "sizable majority" is around 80%...

    # Muslims in Turkey: 62,359,509
    # Muslims against suicide bombings: 49,887,607.2

    # Muslims in Pakistan: 125,397,390
    # Muslims against suicide bombings: 100,317,912

    # Muslims in Indonesia: 196,281,020
    # Muslims against suicide bombings: 157,024,816

    Total supporting suicide bombings in these 3 countries (adding in those who did not answer): 12,471,901.8 + 25,079,478 + 39,256,204 = 76,807,583.8

    Total not supporting suicide bombings these 3 countries: 307,230,335.2

    Final Totals:
    For suicide bombings: 94,826,080.3
    Against suicide bombings: 325,249,831.7

    When you actually look at the totals, you will see most disagree with the suicide bombings.

    Er, Indonesia has no where near 1 billion people and your article states most of them are against suicide bombings.
     
  19. hanif

    hanif Member

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    [email protected] yes there &#305;s no terror &#305;n &#305;slam.&#305; hate from all type of violence.
     
  20. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Hrm, here is something that is interesting... Suicide bombings are thought of as differently that attacks on civilians... Here is a poll that asks Muslims in countries about their thoughts on attacks on civilians.
    http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=814
    I can't copy... here are the % for killing of civilians in 2005:
    Lebanon: 39% (Muslim pop: 2,643,422)
    Morocco: 13% (Muslim pop: 29,392,027)
    Pakistan: 25% (Muslim pop: 125,397,390)
    Indonesia: 15% (Muslim pop: 196,281,020)
    Turkey: 14% (Muslim pop: 62,359,509)
    Jordan: 57% (Muslim pop: 4,001,544)


    I still say there are some that use the Quran to justify terrorism but it is not the majority of Muslims.
     
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