Islam and Heaven - Ive got a Question i really want answered.

[Majikthise]

As an atheist I am not religious myself but feel it important to learn about and understand others beliefs.My opinoin on Islam has changed drastically since being on RF.The people I've heard and talked to here have shown me that I have harbored predjudices that are totally wrong.I've let extremists color my veiws for too long.From now on with me, it's much respect to Islam.

Peace, it's a word everybody can understand.

Dan

 

[Peace]

As an atheist I am not religious myself but feel it important to learn about and understand others beliefs.My opinoin on Islam has changed drastically since being on RF.The people I've heard and talked to here have shown me that I have harbored predjudices that are totally wrong.I've let extremists color my veiws for too long.From now on with me, it's much respect to Islam.

Peace, it's a word everybody can understand.

Dan

Peace be with you Dan,

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

Peace

 

[Ziroc]

As an atheist I am not religious myself but feel it important to learn about and understand others beliefs.My opinoin on Islam has changed drastically since being on RF.The people I've heard and talked to here have shown me that I have harbored predjudices that are totally wrong.I've let extremists color my veiws for too long.From now on with me, it's much respect to Islam.

Peace, it's a word everybody can understand.

Dan

May God bless you Dan !

 

[john313]

As an atheist I am not religious myself but feel it important to learn about and understand others beliefs.My opinoin on Islam has changed drastically since being on RF.The people I've heard and talked to here have shown me that I have harbored predjudices that are totally wrong.I've let extremists color my veiws for too long.From now on with me, it's much respect to Islam.

Peace, it's a word everybody can understand.

Dan

Good to hear, unfortunately many people feel the same as you(and I) used to, and they don't come to RF

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I just wanted to celebrate Dan's decision, too! As others have said, 'if only more people came to RF...'

 

[Dr. Khan]

There is only one God; Christ and Muhammed are the Manifestation of that God. I understand that traditional Christians do not accept this concept, but the Quran affirms it. Therefore whether Islam is true or not there is still only one God.

This is all jive. The old and the new testament both affirm that ye are all god's psalm 82:6 and Jesus speaks of it in John. Now there is one mediator between man and God and that is Christ. Believe me Jesus is all powerful he need no other but the Father, who is God . Jesus is that stone cut from a Mountain not made with hands, spoken of in the book of Daniel . If he were to come into the earth in another form he would have told us so and it would be written in the word which is the Torah and the new Testsment. Now since he has sent us the Holy Spirit same as that which the apostles received in Acts chapter two there is no such thing as we being deceived by anothr religion. We arfe warned by the bible that such a thing would come continuously to lie and attemp to deceive. You have no proof no evedence that the things which you have been taught is true. We have the Holy Spirit to do to us exactly what Jesus said, two thousand years later. :tsk:

 

[Melody]

if he dosn't punish it just like the judge in the courtroom he is no longer Good and Just.

I do not presume to judge God. I just have faith that he is merciful and just and we will all get what we have coming to us.

 

[Steve]

if he dosn't punish it just like the judge in the courtroom he is no longer Good and Just.

I do not presume to judge God. I just have faith that he is merciful and just and we will all get what we have coming to us.

If you think that God will let sin go unpunished thats just as much a judgement as thinking he will make sure it is punished. I have reason for beliving what i say and its based on Gods word, What makes you think that a Just Righteous Holy God could let sin go unpunished?
You say that we will all get whats coming to us, does that mean you think you will end up in Hell? have you sinned befor? when does your god make sure Justice is served in regards to you? Or does he indeed let you of the hook and thereby compromise on Justice?
If we are made in Gods image wouldnt our sense of justice be just a fraction of Gods? If mankind demands justice when it sees things happen that are wrong, how bad do you think a Holy, Righteous, Just God sees our sins?

Jesus paid your fine so that you could stand befor a Righteous God without the need for punishment? Why wouldnt you want that?

 

[Melody]

I have reason for beliving what i say and its based on Gods word, What makes you think that a Just Righteous Holy God could let sin go unpunished?

Are you implying that if God doesn't punish the sinners that He, therefore, is not a "Just Righteous Holy God"? I wouldn't even presume to judge God and His actions.

 

[Steve]

Are you implying that if God doesn't punish the sinners that He, therefore, is not a "Just Righteous Holy God"? I wouldn't even presume to judge God and His actions.

If God dosnt punish sin then yes he is unjust, not being true to his own law. If being Just means making sure Justice is served then how could you argue otherwise? Either God is Just or he isnt, I say he is, thats why we need Jesus to pay for our sins if we expect to stand befor God one day and be allowed into Heaven.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Are you implying that if God doesn't punish the sinners that He, therefore, is not a "Just Righteous Holy God"? I wouldn't even presume to judge God and His actions.

Making Melody another of the wonderful Christians that I celebrate.

Steve, again, all of your arguments come from the Bible. There's no harm in that, but remember that not all people see the Bible as being the word of god.

 

[Steve]

Steve, again, all of your arguments come from the Bible. There's no harm in that, but remember that not all people see the Bible as being the word of god.

Actually the majority of my posts in this thread havnt been arguments from the bible, how can you say "all of your arguments come from the Bible."
I agree some points i might add after the majority of my arguement eg Jesus being a sacrifies solves the problem im trying to address but these points arnt making up the meat of my posts.

 

[john313]

If God dosnt punish sin then yes he is unjust, not being true to his own law. If being Just means making sure Justice is served then how could you argue otherwise? Either God is Just or he isnt, I say he is, thats why we need Jesus to pay for our sins if we expect to stand befor God one day and be allowed into Heaven.

salaam

why can we not pay for our sins before death? in the courtroom scenario you seem so fond of, the judge assigns a punishment to be carried out immediately. if i sin now, i should be able to repent and pay for my sin now rather than wait to give it away to Jesus after i die.
it only makes sense to pay our debts as soon as we can.

 

[Melody]

If God dosnt punish sin then yes he is unjust, not being true to his own law. If being Just means making sure Justice is served then how could you argue otherwise? Either God is Just or he isnt, I say he is, thats why we need Jesus to pay for our sins if we expect to stand befor God one day and be allowed into Heaven.

Just because *I* might think God is unjust, it doesn't mean that He is. It just means that I don't see the whole picture. So I would never be so arrogant as to make the assumption that just because He does something I don't agree with, that he must be unjust.

Ok...I'm quitting.....I'm not even sure I'm making sense to myself.

 

[Steve]

salaam

why can we not pay for our sins before death? in the courtroom scenario you seem so fond of, the judge assigns a punishment to be carried out immediately. if i sin now, i should be able to repent and pay for my sin now rather than wait to give it away to Jesus after i die.
it only makes sense to pay our debts as soon as we can.

You will pay for your sin, and because God is a Just Holy judge he is the one that passes your judgement and decides when and how, u dont decide how to pay for your sins, God does and he would see your sins as alot worse then you do. God decides the punishment for sin, i dont think mankind really has much idea of Gods Righteousness we should remember that it is God who created hell, I dont want to stand befor him in my sins, I thank God i wont have to

 

[andyjamal]

]T

"For the Son of man shall come ..." (Matt. 16:27); "... so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt. 25:27); "... so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 25:39); ""...the Son of man cometh." (Matt. 25:44); "... the Son of man cometh." (Matt.25:19); "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter ... Even the Spirit of truth" (John14:16-17); "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." (John 16:12-13);

Note Christ's choice of words in the following passage: "I am Al'pha and O'mega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Rev. 22:13). I have heard people interpret this to mean that Christ is the "only". Yet, he uses the metaphor of the alphabet which contains many letters. If one judges the words of Christ with fairness, s/he will realize that Christ is telling us that there are many Manifestations of God, and the Spirit of Christ is present in all of them, the first and the last.

These are but a drop in an ocean of references to the return of Christ in the Bible. The whole purpose of the Gospel (Glad Tidings) is to prepare us for this day in which the Promised One has come. And Christ has given us a simple test by which to establish the truth of One who might claim to be that Promised One: "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matt. 7:20). I invite you to investigate the activities of the Baha'is, and judge them by their fruits as Christ instructs you.

Please note that I reference the Bible solely for your sake. For, it is through the teachings of Baha'u'llah that I am affirmed of the reality of Christ, not the other way around.

 

[Steve]

Note Christ's choice of words in the following passage: "I am Al'pha and O'mega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Rev. 22:13). I have heard people interpret this to mean that Christ is the "only". Yet, he uses the metaphor of the alphabet which contains many letters. If one judges the words of Christ with fairness, s/he will realize that Christ is telling us that there are many Manifestations of God, and the Spirit of Christ is present in all of them, the first and the last.

So what other manifestations do u think God has made of himself other then Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

What do you make of verses like these? Or do you just pick and choose which ones suit you?

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. john 3:18

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith - galatians 3:24

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:6-7

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:15-20

 

[andyjamal]

?

So what other manifestations do u think God has made of himself other then Jesus and the Holy Spirit

Adam, Noah, Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhhammed, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah. There may be others.

What do you make of verses like these? Or do you just pick and choose which ones suit you?

I think the verses you quoted are wonderful and true. I don't disregard any scripture; for, it all has meaning for us, though the meaning is not always apparent. I pick and choose the verses that are relevant to my topic; to quote all the books of God in their entirety to make one point would ridiculous. :areyoucra

 

[Popeyesays]

Lying, stealing, and murder are typically wrong, but it depends on intent. if i lie to someone because it is the only way to get him to do something, and it saves lives, then was that lie evil or good?????
if i steal an antidote from a vet's office that is closed and give it to someone just bitten by a snake to save his life, is that an evil or good act of theft????
if i kill someone getting ready to push the button to blow up a McDonalds would that be considered a good or bad deed????
most deeds by themselves are not good or bad. circumstances have to be evaluated.

The Qur'an says that one's good and bad deeds "to the weight of a mustard seed" will be recorded for judgement day. This implies to me that different offenses have different weight. When all the weighing is done, however, we can rely on two things the Mercy and Grace of God which are without ending or stinting. I take comfort in that.

Regards,
Scott