ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

[firedragon]

Hold on a moment, brother..
I think he's pointing out that Muslims believe these hadiths, and I would say that he is right when it comes to "sunnis", wouldn't you?

Well. Thats correct. He is basing his standard on the Sunni theology. But in that case he has to follow through.

If his whole idea is based on "the Sunnis believe it", he has to follow through and believe everything they say. If not, he has to have a methodology, not just appealing to Sunnis. He also has to believe the prophet Muhammed was a true prophet. Because that is the Sunni Theology.

So without a methodology, you cannot say "I cherry pick this hadith to spread hatred towards Muslims".

This is a person who distributed pornographic images of a man in a beard having sex with a toddler on his lap attributing that image to the prophet Muhammed. So has to validate his stance.

I've asked him not to bombard us, and to consider one or two hadiths at a time.
There is no doubt in my mind that Muslims should not be pacifists.
It is also very clear in my mind that G-d does not like those that start aggression.

It is the classic case of those that claim "how can G-d be both loving and harsh in punishment simultaneously?", imo.
People with roots in a Christian society , often find this contradictory.

Can you explain why this person can cherry pick one hadith, and say "This is historically true", and then reject other hadith as "Historically false"? What is his basis?

Cheers.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Can you explain why this person can cherry pick one hadith, and say "This is historically true", and then reject other hadith as "Historically false"? What is his basis?

Of course people are going to do that.
I don't think that anything can be learned if one doesn't focus on the point being discussed.
eg. why are there so many verses / hadiths about violence towards "infidels"

It is not an easy topic, I would agree.
I would say that the answer lies in the context.
That is, one of oppression.

 

[firedragon]

Of course people are going to do that.
I don't think that anything can be learned if one doesn't focus on the point being discussed.
eg. why are there so many verses / hadiths about violence towards "infidels"

It is not an easy topic, I would agree.
I would say that the answer lies in the context.
That is, one of oppression.

Alright. Can you tell me these things below?

1. According to the Quran, what is an infidel and its usage?
2. What are the violences so called called for in the Qur'an towards this so called "infidels" and based on what?

Simple query.

 

[SA Huguenot]

 

[firedragon]

You still have not given your reasons for dogmatically believing in "some ahadith".

Thanks in advance.

 

[muhammad_isa]

1. According to the Quran, what is an infidel and its usage?

I understand that most people equate "kafir" with infidel.
"infidel" meaning a person who denies the truth of Islam, in this context.

There is some difference of opinion on the precise meaning of "kafir". It literally refers to "one who covers truth", and some people consider "people of the book" to be included, whilst others don't.

2. What are the violences so called called for in the Qur'an towards this so called "infidels" and based on what?

Well, that is what @SA Huguenot wants to know, isn't it?
In my understanding, the Qur'an is referring to those "kafirs" who were persecuting the Muslims .. no?

 

[firedragon]

I understand that most people equate "kafir" with infidel.
"infidel" meaning a person who denies the truth of Islam, in this context.

There is some difference of opinion on the precise meaning of "kafir". It literally refers to "one who covers truth", and some people consider "people of the book" to be included, whilst others don't.

Absolutely. You are right.

Well, that is what @SA Huguenot wants to know, isn't it?
In my understanding, the Qur'an is referring to those "kafirs" who were persecuting the Muslims .. no?

Which verse is speaking for violence against Kafir's? And for what? Why are they called Kafir's at that particular juncture?

And no, this is not what this person is asking for. He is a person who distributes pornographic Gif images of the prophet Muhammed. And, currently, he is just making a lot of comments claiming he has studied all the Islamic so called books including the Qur'an and all the ahadith.

He claims ahadith are historical when its convenient for him. So my question is, why does he claim that? Whats the methodology,

I dont know if you wish to help him so if that is your intention, can you explain why this SA person believes some ahadith to be historically absolute, and why the others are not, why pick some particular ahadith and reject every other hadith as false.

Thanks.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I understand that most people equate "kafir" with infidel.
"infidel" meaning a person who denies the truth of Islam, in this context.

There is some difference of opinion on the precise meaning of "kafir". It literally refers to "one who covers truth", and some people consider "people of the book" to be included, whilst others don't.


Well, that is what @SA Huguenot wants to know, isn't it?
In my understanding, the Qur'an is referring to those "kafirs" who were persecuting the Muslims .. no?

I once had a debate with a Muslim in Lenasia South Africa.
Over the next year I received postcards calling me a Kaffir, and telling me I will die of aids etc.
I still have a few I kept.

Anyhow, Muslims in South Africa consider me as a Kafir, even though we have laws prohibiting to call anyone that name, the Quran and Muslims have that name for any non Muslim.
Greetings.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Anyhow, Muslims in South Africa consider me as a Kafir, even though we have laws prohibiting to call anyone that name, the Quran and Muslims have that name for any non Muslim.
Greetings.

Ah, yes South Africa.

Fortunately, I have no connection with that culture, other than being white.

 

[firedragon]

I once had a debate with a Muslim in Lenasia South Africa.
Over the next year I received postcards calling me a Kaffir, and telling me I will die of aids etc.
I still have a few I kept.

See I once debated a non-muslim here in this very forum called SA H...... His final debate tactic was to share a pornographic image of some bearded man having intercourse with a toddler.

The thing is I dont make a generalisation of that kind of ignorant, vile behaviour to every single non-muslim. Maybe you should not do that as well.

So analyse someone's response based on the merit of the response.

Anyhow, Muslims in South Africa consider me as a Kafir, even though we have laws prohibiting to call anyone that name, the Quran and Muslims have that name for any non Muslim.
Greetings.

Can you tell me the understanding of the word "Kafir" as you are trying to propagate?

Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

@muhammad_isa

You should note that the word Kafir can refer to many situations. Lets say you wear gloves, the act of wearing gloves to cover your hands can be an act of kuf. Because its an act of covering. Lets say you go to courts accusing someone who owes you money and the fellow lies in courts saying he doesnt owe you any money. That act of lying is called Kuf.

So the usage of the word Kafir is contingent upon something else.

Thus, lets say a set of people have broken a treaty with you and you get in to a war with them for the breaking of this treaty, and they are called Kufr that's because of their act. They could be called Kafir for that act. Do you understand?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Thus, lets say a set of people have broken a treaty with you and you get in to a war with them for the breaking of this treaty, and they are called Kufr that's because of their act. They could be called Kafir for that act. Do you understand?

Thankyou, yes.
I most certainly do understand.

 

[Chrisbbc]

V

According to the Quran and sunnah, a person becomes a responsible adult on reaching puberty. This will vary from about 9 years old (the age of Aisha when Muhammad consummated his marriage with her) to around 14, depending on various factors.
The first period or wet dream, or the appearance of pubic hair are cited as indicators.
So "child marriage" is very much permitted in Islam, in principle. Muhammad himself married Aisha when she was 6.

Can I hire someone to shave my 4 sons pubic hair?