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Featured ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    This thread is opened to discuss ISIL/ISIS/Dais or what ever you wish to call them, and the Taliban, which are the most prominently caricatured representation of Islam by some of the hardline atheistic polemicists in this forum. Not all, but some. It is also prominently used by some Christians, and since of late, by Hindus too, and maybe even others.

    What do you think? Is this a true Islam or a false Islam. What are the evidences for this equation?
     
  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer Wyrd Walker
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    All Islam is true Islam. But this represents a fringe extremist representation/interpretation of those views.
     
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  3. Lain

    Lain Well-Known Member

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    I think of it as false Islam because from what I can tell the majority of Muslims disagree with their actions. That's the state of evidence I have currently, as I have not gone deeper into the matter.
     
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  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Since that is a case of in the eye of the béholder, I have a personal opinion on the matter, but to me that has nothing to do with true or false.
    I don't like them, but that has nothing to do with them being religious. It is all about that I don't like, what they do. But that is so for some human behaviour and has nothing to do with religion.
     
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  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Yeah. I opened it because its a pretty common association. Day in, day out. Sometimes insistently. :)

    Anyway., you made an interesting statement. All Islam is true Islam. How do you mean it? From a sociological bottom up or a theological bottom up?
     
  6. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    While on the other hand, no Christian is a true Christian.
     
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  7. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    There is Islam as is, and Islam as ought to be. Obviously non-Muslims can only see Islam as is, and don't know what it ought to be. So they analyze everything from as Islam is presented perspective. Not from the ought to be perspective.

    Imam Ali (a) when things started going haywire, warned of a time when "nothing will remain of Islam but it's name". This is a conditional prophecy if nation continues in disbelief and rebellion. And in reality to me this has happened to a large extent, but Khomeini (q) saved a lot of the justice and government and standing against oppressors perspective, but he also went into extremes because of inheriting Fiqh from scholars of generations that were extreme in interpretation.

    I want to free Khamanei (h) from scholars he inherited Islam from and present him and Iran a better Islam. I don't know if what I will do will cause fitna or makes thing better. And I won't act unless I know that's what God wants me to do.
     
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  8. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    From where? The NEWS? Fox?
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    There is false propaganda true, then there is also fault with Muslims. When Shiite "great men and leaders" say you can thigh a three year old and marry toddlers, while this contradicts reasoning and human nature as well as what Quran said about the age of marriage, then we are to blame ourselves also. Most Sunni scholars in the past taught the same, not sure about present day ones, I don't pay attention to them.

    When we talk about hadiths and say it's undoubted numerous and authentic that we are to kill people who insult God's Messengers including Mohammad (s), then we presented unreasonable religion to the world.

    Part of it is the fault of non-Muslims. Part of it and the biggest part, is our fault.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No no. I asked you where they see Islam through. NEWS?

    Do you understand the question?
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I do. They take a mix some of it false propaganda (from FOX news, etc), but some of it is not. We presented Islam wrong.
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Who do you mean by "we"?

    So how sophisticated is that?
     
  13. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I'm not saying they are not at fault, but the bigger blame is us. The bigger fault is those who have the divine trusts but sabotage it out of their caprice. That would be "us" as in people who testify to Mohammad (s) and oneness of God. Not talking about whether we are true to that covenant or not.
     
  14. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    I know of that tradition, and I believe that is true today.:(
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Why us? Please explain. What do you mean true to that covenant? What do you expect Muslims to be?

    By "US" I guess you are addressing all Muslims.
     
  16. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Every human is responsible to use his intelligence properly and arrive at truth from guidance from God. So they are at fault. But we Muslims are also at fault and are more blameworthy.
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Where is that tradition from? Whats the authenticity? How do you authenticate it? Please explain.
     
  18. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I don't mean "all", I mean most. Most have done what people of the book did with their scholars, make them idols among men who they obey while knowingly disobeying God. They attribute God both what they don't know as well as what they know to be false.

    This has caused a huge problem in presenting Islam to non-Muslims.
     
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  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You have said this same statement 3 times. I have asked you "why" 3 times. ;) You are right in many ways, but I wanna know why you said this.

    So why?
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Absolutely too vague.
     
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