ISAIAH PROPHESIED ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY, AND (some) CHRISTIANS ACCEPTING ISLAM:

[AbduRahman (Kai)]

JESUS PROPHESIED "KINGDOM OF GOD", ISLAM:



http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/koran/islam/





ISAIAH PROPHESIES CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM in Isa.7:5-6,13-17 earthquake killing 250 000 people in Christian Syria 526 AD+Islam Isa.9:1-6

These two prophesies describe both, Christianity and Islam, more religions themselves than prophets, and describe conditions when they appeared, and it is connected to Islam by earthquake in Syria 526 AC, that killed over 250 000 Christian Syrian’s, and by warm climate of time. Time of earthquake in prophecy is connected to time when Christianity was (most near to be) right religion before Islam came to direct into "choosing good and abandoning evil", as (most) Christians in Syria and elsewhere in Middle-East and north-Africa did, accepted Islam (in long period of time).

Then was over time when Immanuel (=Christianity, Immanuel="Lord with us", describing Christians who believe that God was with them on earth), so Christians, got to eat "curds and honey" (describing especially warm centuries before coming of Islam and easy faith without much expectations like regular praying) and came time when Christians had to choose between "choosing good and refusing evil" as Islam came. That is when easy salvation , for some without knowledge, even by worshipping Jesus as a god were to end, and more demanding times came.

10. Then the LORD spoke again to Ahaz, saying,
11. "Ask a sign for yourself from the LORD your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven."

12. But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, nor will I test the LORD!"

13. Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well?

14. "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Immanuel is Christianity/Christians, "Lord with us" describes how Christians will believe, that God came to Earth among them. Nowadays Christians can not change this belief into any other form, as if they would deny that Jesus was not god, they should become Muslims. This is how Allah made sure that Christians believe like Quran describes and how prophesied even in Bible.

15. "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.

Warm and agriculturally plenty centuries were just before Islam, wine was grown even in Britain that time (besides description of few nuclear-winter’s in 6th century, when sun shined only couple of hours in a day, perhaps because of big meteor that hit Earth, it could be from words of Jesus how before end of times there will be "signs in the sky", just before coming of Mohammed who began "end of times", countdown for Judgment Day). Then when Islam came, about one third from Christians in world learned how to chose good and abandon evil, in Middle-East and in North-Africa.

16. "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

So before Islam came and Christians learned to choose good, Syria (mentioned "land whose two kings you dread" in 7:5-6) and its lands were forsaken (in some translations "will come empty") when earthquake hit 526 AC and killed 250 000 Christian Syrians (almost total population of Syria that time).

17."The LORD will bring on you, on your people, and on your father's house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria."

This could be again coming back in time to time just after Jesus, and this could describe for example destruction of Jerusalem by Romans (but also other same kind of events).











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HERE IS PROPHESIED MOHAMMED AND ISLAM: (Isa.9:1-6)

Birth and Reign of the Prince of Peace
1. But there shall be no gloom to her that was in anguish. In the former time he brought into contempt the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali; but in the latter time hath he made it glorious, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.

"Zebulun and Naphtali" who were treated with contempt earlier is Arabia, these border areas of Israel describe areas beyond borders ("on the other side of Jordan"). Arabs were so despised that Byzantium or Persia did not even want to conquer it, or to convert them to their religion. "Way of the sea" is Red Sea and Persian Gulf surrounding holy places of Muslims, (temple of even Abraham in) Mecca and Medina, and also offering connecting short sea route between Mediterranean and Indian Ocean. "Other side of Jordan" is deserts of Arabs behind Jordan (Arabs have lived there centuries before Islam), confirming that Arabs are mentioned here.

2. The people who walk in darkness
Will see a great light;
Those who live in a dark land,
The light will shine on them.

"People who walk in darkness" is Arabic pagans, without monotheistic religion. "Light" is Islam and Word of Allah, "dark land" is waste lands in deserts.

3. You shall multiply the nation,
You shall increase their gladness;
They will be glad in Your presence
As with the gladness of harvest,
As men rejoice when they divide the spoil.

Nation of Arabs and lot of spoil to divide multiplied when Arabs conquered Middle-East and North-Africa. "Increase their gladness" is about Mohammed, as Jesus himself said that he has not come to brought peace bur sword.

4. For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders,
The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian.

"Break yoke of their burden" is sin that is abolished, Quran and Mohammed gave numerous complete instructions in hadiths what is wrong, and how to avoid it. Breaking "staff on their shoulders" is slavery, that was reduced dramatically because of Islam, as it encouraged Muslims to let slaves free (reward is better benefits in paradise). Breaking "rod of their oppressor" is destroying power of satan.

5. For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult,
And cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.

Islam brought centuries of peace into Middle-East (except crusades started by Christians) and to North-Africa, and peace is also what Islam means as a word. Overall Muslims have had (against each others especially) much less wars than Christians, and those few wars have been much less bloody than in Christian countries. Also Islam gave liberty and peace for many persecuted minority Christians in Byzantium, who were not accepted by official state church (as they refused to believe into trinity or into Jesus as god for example). Of course this can also describe how sins are wiped out from those who accepts Islam (bloody clothes are burned).


6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

As Jesus, also Mohammed (puh) were given to us, although in case of Jesus focus is much more in his birth. Government will rest on shoulders of Mohammed, and on Him who send Mohammed and ordered him to act and to do as he did, in founding of government. This is not about Jesus, he did not found government. "Wonderful Counsellor" describes amazing Quran and numerous hadiths, over two million of them, and amount of information on those for nearly all aspects of life. "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" describes God of Islam, Allah (not Jesus-loves-you-all-god), from Whom Mohammed (and also Jesus) preached about, and how Allah will be eternity and will not change a bit . Prince of Peace is about Allah, Islam and Mohammed together, their common affect on world and about peace they brought.


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7.Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

"Kingdom that have no end in government and peace" and "reigned from David’s throne" (throne of religions of Abraham) is Islam that spread through THREE continents from Spain to China and India in under 100 years (compare to Matt.13:33 where Jesus told that "kingdom of heaven is like leaven, that woman took and hid in THREE pecks of flour, until it was all leavened"). "Justice and righteousness" is describing what Islam emphasizes very much in its doctrine. "That time and forever" is about Islam that will never change. Zeal (from Jews and Christians going astray) of Allah will accomplish this.

 

[AbduRahman (Kai)]

From this following passage in New Testament (Matt.4:13-17), that many will try to use to deny my interpretations, can be clearly seen that writer has interpretated himself that Jesus so fulfilled another prophecy, and twisted prophecy by fitting it into frames of this:

13. and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali.

14. This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:
15. "THE LAND OF ZEBULUN AND THE LAND OF NAPHTALI,
BY THE WAY OF THE SEA, BEYOND THE JORDAN, GALILEE OF THE GENTILES--
16. "THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING IN DARKNESS SAW A GREAT LIGHT,
AND THOSE WHO WERE SITTING IN THE LAND AND SHADOW OF DEATH,
UPON THEM A LIGHT DAWNED."

17. From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

First of all, these are not words of Jesus but later added prophecy by Isaiah fitted into visit of Jesus on area fitting into prophecy (in prophecy this border area of Israel is just describing areas beyond borders, lands of Arabs, not just lands of Zebulun/Naphtali exclusively, in fact Jesus were only near these areas for a LITTLE TIME).

In Isaiah prophecy were in future-form, here in past-form. According to Isaiah lands of Zebulun/Naphtali were "treated with contempt", and only LATER they will be given PERMANENT light (Jesus spend there only little time, Christianity little longer, but Islam is still there), so that whole land will come from dark into shining (describing deserts, which it came permanently only by Islam).

So would it not have to mean that these people on these lands did not accept Jesus and his message and so were kept in darkness, or that they started worshipping prophet as a god when they at least lost rest from their glory and were in contempt. In this case Islam was one to come to clean and purify that all.


Jesus himself did not require faith for “salvation through death on cross” even in Bible, it is invention of others (mainly Paul’s), although he recognized that those events have to come pass (even as fake crucifixion) because of its importance for world and in foreshadowing Islam to bring salvation closer to (otherwise) pagans who were not mentioned to receive Islam (until some time limit on some amount, which is going on now). Jesus even stated that he will be those three days like Jonah on stomach of whale, and Jonah was ALIVE inside whale.

 

[Steve]

You know instead of twisting the prophet Isaiahs writings you could just acknowledge them for what they really say, repent of your sin and be forgiven thanks to the atonement Christ made for you on the Cross.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6
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[James the Persian]

Then was over time when Immanuel (=Christianity, Immanuel="Lord with us", describing Christians who believe that God was with them on earth), so Christians, got to eat "curds and honey" (describing especially warm centuries before coming of Islam and easy faith without much expectations like regular praying) and came time when Christians had to choose between "choosing good and refusing evil" as Islam came. That is when easy salvation , for some without knowledge, even by worshipping Jesus as a god were to end, and more demanding times came.

The bit I've emboldened made me smile. You think that the early centuries of Christianity were easy? What of the persecutions? I also have to ask why you assume that early Christians were 'without...expectations like regular praying'. It seems you think that before Islam came along all Christians were sort of primitive Protestants. They weren't, but were much closer in practice to modern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. To give you an idea of some of the expectations they were subject to, here are some Orthodox expectations: daily prayer, fasting every Wednesday and Friday plus other set fasts including almost 50 days before Easter and fourty days before Christmas. Complete fasting (nil by mouth) from the night before we take the Eucharist, regular confession, attending Liturgy every Sunday (at which we do not sit or kneel), taking the Eucharist frequently, and much more even than that. These expectations come from canons that predate Islam and, it seems to me, it is Muslims who, with the exception of the food laws and set prayer times, have the fewer expectations on them.

James

 

[michel]

***************************MOD POST*************************
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In view of the Thread content, moved to Biblical debates.
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[Scott1]

These expectations come from canons that predate Islam and, it seems to me, it is Muslims who, with the exception of the food laws and set prayer times, have the fewer expectations on them.

Amen, brother.... Christianity is more about a radical conversion of heart and soul towards a love for the divine Son of God.... not about "sack cloth and ashes" public prayers and food restrictions.

Theotokos, pray for us.
Scott

 

[Aqualung]

The bit I've emboldened made me smile. You think that the early centuries of Christianity were easy? What of the persecutions? I also have to ask why you assume that early Christians were 'without...expectations like regular praying'. It seems you think that before Islam came along all Christians were sort of primitive Protestants. They weren't, but were much closer in practice to modern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. To give you an idea of some of the expectations they were subject to, here are some Orthodox expectations: daily prayer, fasting every Wednesday and Friday plus other set fasts including almost 50 days before Easter and fourty days before Christmas. Complete fasting (nil by mouth) from the night before we take the Eucharist, regular confession, attending Liturgy every Sunday (at which we do not sit or kneel), taking the Eucharist frequently, and much more even than that. These expectations come from canons that predate Islam and, it seems to me, it is Muslims who, with the exception of the food laws and set prayer times, have the fewer expectations on them.

James

that part made me smile
But I agree. Early christianity was anything but easy, and it certainly wasn't lax.

 

[James the Persian]

Amen, brother.... Christianity is more about a radical conversion of heart and soul towards a love for the divine Son of God.... not about "sack cloth and ashes" public prayers and food restrictions.

Theotokos, pray for us.
Scott

Absolutely. All of the Christian 'expectations' I mentioned are about turning ourselves to God and following in Christ's footsteps, which is why they are more guidelines than strict rules that must be followed at all times. They are medicine for the soul, not arbitrary submission to a set of regulations. I still think, from comparison with the beliefs and practices of Muslim friends and acquaintances, that ours is the more demanding faith which is why the 'years of honey' idea made me laugh.

James

 

[Muhhamad Abdul Salam]

I still think, from comparison with the beliefs and practices of Muslim friends and acquaintances, that ours is the more demanding faith which is why the 'years of honey' idea made me laugh.

James

Is it now? Lets see, how many times have you fasted. Have you ever been physically assaulted because of your faith. How many times do you worship per day? Have you ever prostrated or gotten on the ground while praying in public? Are you willing to prohibit yourself from alcohol, cigarettes, pork, gambling, etc. I used to be a christian and no offense but its a pretty plush life. Go to worship on Sundays, youre the majority faith, there arent any restrictions, you can even pray to a cross (idolatry). Yep, ist a huge sacrifice.

 

[nutshell]

Is it now? Lets see, how many times have you fasted. Have you ever been physically assaulted because of your faith. How many times do you worship per day? Have you ever prostrated or gotten on the ground while praying in public? Are you willing to prohibit yourself from alcohol, cigarettes, pork, gambling, etc.

Brother, are you LDS???!!! That's awesome. Welcome to the forums.

 

[Muhhamad Abdul Salam]

You know instead of twisting the prophet Isaiahs writings you could just acknowledge them for what they really say, repent of your sin and be forgiven thanks to the atonement Christ made for you on the Cross.

I have repented, I do it five times every day. On the subject of scripture though, didnt the church vote on what to include in the bible. How do you vote on it and then say "surely this is the work of God". Also weve never tried to play with Christian scripture but every now and then I see christians "bearing witness" to what "is really in the Qur'an" and how its a "religion of war". We never so much as passed gas in your direction but 9/11 hits and every baptist goes out to "reveal the truth" (twisted truth) that secretly lies in the Qur'an. I think its only justice that if you guys want to play scrabble with us then will do it back, besides, we dont believe in turn the other cheek.

 

[Popeyesays]

Isaiah and Micah and Daniel also prophesied Baha`u'llah, I can provide you chapter, verse and explanation if you like.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Flappycat]

You Christo-Muslims and your quote-mining. Keep trying to pick out phrases that support your particular dogma if it entertains you to do so, but I think you'd get a lot more out of the books by reading them for what they actually say. Keep going, though. Watching you folks trying to force a supreme being to agree with you is better than Prime Time HBO.

 

[Popeyesays]

You Christo-Muslims and your quote-mining. Keep trying to pick out phrases that support your particular dogma if it entertains you to do so, but I think you'd get a lot more out of the books by reading them for what they actually say. Keep going, though. Watching you folks trying to force a supreme being to agree with you is better than Prime Time HBO.

Who's a Christo-Muslim?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Deut 13:1]

You know instead of twisting the prophet Isaiahs writings you could just acknowledge them for what they really say, repent of your sin and be forgiven thanks to the atonement Christ made for you on the Cross.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6


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How many threads do you plan on posting this same verse without responding to the rebuttals?

 

[Popeyesays]

I have repented, I do it five times every day. On the subject of scripture though, didnt the church vote on what to include in the bible. How do you vote on it and then say "surely this is the work of God". Also weve never tried to play with Christian scripture but every now and then I see christians "bearing witness" to what "is really in the Qur'an" and how its a "religion of war". We never so much as passed gas in your direction but 9/11 hits and every baptist goes out to "reveal the truth" (twisted truth) that secretly lies in the Qur'an. I think its only justice that if you guys want to play scrabble with us then will do it back, besides, we dont believe in turn the other cheek.

The Council of Nicaea pre-dates the Roman Church. It was a council of independent Bishops who were mostly concerned with carving out power blocs amongst them. They declared "heresy" and "heretic" many of their own number. No single "Church" authorized the canon of the Bible. It was a just a power-mad bunch of madmen trying earnestly to cut each other's throats.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Flappycat]

Who's a Christo-Muslim?

Regards,
Scott

A member of any religion related to Christianity or Islam, in this case one who seems to want control over the thoughts and feelings of supreme beings. The quote-mining is and always has been one of the most ridiculous habits of the bunch. They speak as if a supreme being could be controlled by pulling random passages out of a collection of old books supposedly about it. I can't imagine a supreme being that wouldn't be either offended or amused. When you are throwing stones at one another, be careful not to mistake a mirror for your target. Seven years bad luck, you know.

The atheist has the more difficult "religion" if you evaluate difficulty in terms of getting anyone to heed you.

 

[Popeyesays]

A member of any religion related to Christianity or Islam, in this case one who seems to want control over the thoughts and feelings of supreme beings. The quote-mining is and always has been one of the most ridiculous habits of the bunch. They speak as if a supreme being could be controlled by pulling random passages out of a collection of old books supposedly about it. I can't imagine a supreme being that wouldn't be either offended or amused. When you are throwing stones at one another, be careful not to mistake a mirror for your target. Seven years bad luck, you know.

The atheist has the more difficult "religion" if you evaluate difficulty in terms of getting anyone to heed you.

I was heeding you, I just don't agree with you. Is that a separate crime?

Regards,
Scott

 

[gnostic]

I agreed with Flappycat (frubal to you) that both Christians and Muslims quoting from tiny fraction of random passage from the Hebrew Scripture (ie Old Testament or Tanakh), often to force meaning into something, and taking it completely out of context when the entire chapter, or even chapters, are read together. You can't select small passage without taking in consideration the surrounding text of your quoted verse, because it make it lose its original meaning.

 

[Flappycat]

I was heeding you, I just don't agree with you. Is that a separate crime?

I didn't say anything was a crime. There's just no nice way to tell people that their supreme being doesn't exist. There's no way for it to sound appealing. Worse, atheists don't have any organizational support or any real motivation to convert people to atheism. It's just not something you get hyped up about. In the end, atheism is just too boring to really interest anybody, in and of itself. You guys get to parade around, claiming left and right that this or that deity has all the answers to everything and this prophet or seer said that, and anything an atheist can possibly say about atheism is just going to be met with snores. There isn't even a big atheist culture to boast of, just a little collection of like-minded philosophers and most of the scientific community. With nothing to make the atheist interesting, appealing, or even particularly likable, the atheist is going to end up blasted from all corners. Even the Dali Lama doesn't have a kind word for the atheist. In public circles, you can easily get away with saying that you have the one, true religion, implicitly asserting that all others are false, but saying you think the whole business is a waste of time will have even the moderates leaping up to tell you to your face that you're pond scum. I speak from hard experience. Take one guess as to why I remain an atheist with absolutely no material or social incentive.

A perk is that you don't have to feel hypocritical about pointing out the ridiculous behaviors of religious people. When Christians or Muslims discuss their theology, they seem more interested in pulling out quotes to support their views than in discovering what the soundbyte was actually meant to say. Arguing with snippets of scripture is an outright waste because the snippet doesn't explain the context or importance of itself to the overall story or to what it is significant. You don't even have a way of knowing what a particular word or phrase meant in the idiom of the time period in which it was written. As far as I can tell, the present-day forms of both of these religions are based on this sort of behavior, though. Anywhere else, it's called quote-mining, a behavior which is usually spoken of dirisively. I have no respect for the behavior under any name. Is this what Islam is? Is this what Christianity is?